Dr. Ambedkar As The Member
of Executive Governor General Council
Questions and Answers
______________________________________________
432
[f.1]
Contract Works given by Horticultural Division Central P. W. D., New Delhi
1381.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Will the Honourable the Labour Member kindly place on the table
of the House a comparative statement showing the amount of contract works given by (i)
tenders and (ii) work orders, separately, to Muslims, Hindus and Scheduled Caste
Contractors in the Horticultural Division of the Central P. W. D., New Delhi, during the
period from 1st November, 1943, to the 28th February 1946, by the present Superintendent,
Horticultural Operations, New Delhi?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
The information asked for is not readily available and the time and labour involved in
collecting it would be incommensurate with the value of the result.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : What are the reasons why the information is not readily available ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
It is not available in the form in which my Honourable friend wants it.
Prof.
N. G. Ranga :
Is any effort being made to give additional opportunities for scheduled caste contractors
to have their share ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
They can get their share in accordance with the rules laid down.
Prof.
N. G. Ranga :
There are only very few from the scheduled castes, because they are so poor.
433
[f.2]
Muslim Horticultural Subordinates in Central P. W. D.
1382.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member kindly state if it is a
fact that three B. Sc. Muslims were appointed in the Central P.W.D. as Horticultural
Subordinates on the 28th February 1945, 19th March 1945, and 23rd May 1945, but they were
not given charge of Sections till the 28th November 1945?
(b)
On what duties were they put during the intervening period ? (c) If they were not required
for specific work expected of them, why has public money to the amount of Rs. 5,000 been
wasted in this way, who is responsible for that and what action do Government propose to
take against the officer concerned ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Yes. (b) and (c) As the men were fresh from college and had no practical experience,
they were given preliminary training as probationers before being placed in formal charge
of sections.
434
[f.3]
Scales of Pay and Increments to Chowdhries and Assistant Chowdhries in Horticulture
Division
1383.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Will the honourable the Labour Member kindly state the scales of
pay and increments allowed to Chowdhries and Assistant Chowdhries in the Horticulture
Division ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: The scales of pay with rates of increments are as follows :
Chowdhries—
Rs. 20—1—35—2—55 (for old entrants).
Rs.
25—1—45 (for new entrants).
Assistant
Chowdhrics—Rs. 20—1/2—30 (for old and new entrants).
Prof.
N. G. Ranga : What is the particular post of a Chowdhri ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: A sort of head mali.
Mr.
Manu Subedar : Do Government expect a Chowdhri to live on Rs. 20 a month in the present
day living conditions ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
They get dearness allowance also.
Mr. Manu Subedar : What do they get ? Rs. 14 or Rs.
8? How much?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
I have not got the information with me. Mr. Manu Subedar : Will the Government go into the
question as to whether industrial class Government employees can really exist on the pay
they are getting ?
Prof. N. G.
Ranga : How much are the malis paid ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
want notice.
435
[f.4]
Appointments Made by Superintendent Horticultural
Operations, Central P. W. D.
384.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Will the Honourable the Labour Member kindly state,
communitywise, viz., Hindus, Muslims, Other Minority Communities and Scheduled Castes, the
number of persons appointed by the present Superintendent, Horticultural Operations,
Central P. W. D., New Delhi, from the 1st November, 1943, to the 28th February, 1946, as
clerks, chowdhries, assistant chowdhries, torry drivers, fitters, time-keepers and
mechanics ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
A statement is laid on the table.
Statement
showing the number of persons appointed by the Superintendent, Horticultural Operations,
New Delhi from 1st November 1943 to 28th February 1946
|
Hindus |
Muslims |
Schedule
Castes |
Other
Minority Community |
Clerks |
9 |
2 |
|
1 |
Chowdhries |
|
1 |
|
|
Assistant
Chowdhries |
1 |
|
|
|
Torry
Drivers |
2 |
|
|
|
Fitters |
2 |
1 |
|
|
Time-Keepers |
1 |
1 |
|
|
Mechanics |
1 |
|
|
|
436
[f.5]
Muslim Officers in Labour Department
1385.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : (a) Will the
Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact that in the Labour Department
the Secretary, Joint Secretary and the Deputy Secretary are all Hindus ? Does the
Honourable Member propose to appoint a Muslim Officer in charge of the staff in that
Department ? If not, why not ?
(b)
How many subordinates in the Central Public Works Department were promoted as
Sub-Divisional Officers during the last five years ? Are there any Muslims ? If so, how
many, and in what proportion ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) No. The Secretary is a European and there are two Muslims, one ex-officio Joint
Secretary and one Deputy Secretary. These two officers also deal with staff questions. The
latter part of the question does not arise.
(a) During
the last five years 385 subordinates were promoted as
S.D.OS.. Out of which 56 were Muslims. This works out to 14.5 per cent.
Prof.
N. G. Ranga :
When will the Honourable Member consider the appointment of an Indian Secretary to this
Department, in view of the fact that for a number of years past, there has been no Indian
Secretary in this Department ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
This is a matter which rests with the Selection Committee.
Prof. N. G.
Ranga : Who selects the Secretaries of Departments ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
want notice.
Prof. N. G.
Ranga : Is there a selection committee which deals with this question?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
There is a committee to which the matter must be referred and the selection is made only
from an approved list.
Mr.
Ahmed
E. H. Jaffer: Does it mean that the Honourable
Member has no hand in the appointment ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Not until there is a vacancy, I am sure.
437
[f.6]
Seniority of Certain Officers for Purposes of Allotment of Government Residences
1389.
Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour member be pleased to
state if it is a fact that during the period of emergency certain offices of the Central
Government (Secretariat and Attached Offices) were moved from Delhi/Simla to outstations,
for want of office accommodation ?
(b)
Is it a fact that the staff on return with the offices have not been allowed to count
their previous service for purposes of entitlement to Government quarters on the ground
that they moved to a station other than Delhi/Simla and that in their cases their
seniority for entitlement to accommodation was reckoned from the date of subsequent
arrival at Delhi ?
(c)
Is it a fact that the Secretariat Staff working at Calcutta have been allowed to count
offices in regard to allotment of residential accommodation been made ?
(d) If so why has this sort of discrimination
between the staff of the secretariat and attached Offices in regard to allotment of
residential accommodation been made ?
(e)
Are Government aware that these people have been penalised for no fault of their own in
regard to allotment of quarters, as they had to move under orders of the labour Department
in the interest of the State ?
(f)
Do Government propose to consider the desirability of restoring the suspended lines in
respect of these individuals and allot them accommodation according to their date of
joining offices at Delhi / Simla ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Yes. (b) The correct position is as follows :
Some
of the staff were allowed to count their previous service . if the period of absence from
Delhi was not more than one year and if they hold liens on Government residences in Delhi.
This qualifying period was subsequently reduced to a maximum of six months.
(c)
Yes, but only the staff posted in a Secretariat Department at Calcutta or locate
transferred from a Secretariat Department in Delhi/Simla to a Secretariat Department in
Calcutta prior to April 1st, 1945.
(d)
There has been no discrimination between the staff of the Secretariat and attached offices
except in the case of Calcutta where a Branch Secretariat of a Government of India
Department was located and transfers between the Headquarters and the Branch Secretariat
were frequent. With the issue of the revised rules, this concession has been withdrawn
w.e.f. 1st April, 1945 and persons transferred to a Secretariat Department at Calcutta
after this date are not allowed to count their previous service for allotment in Delhi.
(e)
Government are aware that some officers have been prejudicially affected by the Rules, but
this is inevitable in the working of Rules designed formally to secure the efficiency of
administration by reducing movements to a minimum.
(f)
Government do not propose to alter the rules in this respect.
438
[f.7]
Supply of Material to Sardar Sobha Singh to build
Quarters in New Delhi
1390.
Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state
whether it is a fact that Sardar Sobha Singh was given material by Government to build
quarters in New Delhi ?
(b)
What is the cost of the material supplied, and under what arrangement?
(c)
How many flats has he built ? What is the rent of each flat, how many of these flats are
occupied and how many are empty ?
(d)
Are Government granting any subsidy ? If so, in what manner and where it is granted to the
said Sardar Sobha Singh ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: (a) I presume that the Honourable Member refers to the residential flats on the junction
of Comwallis Road and Humayun Road, New Delhi, built by S. B. Sir Sobha Singh. If so, the
reply is in the affirmative.
(b)
The cost of material supplied is about Rs. 1 1/2 lakhs. The contractor is to bear the
entire cost of the material supplied to him.
(c)
The number of flats so far constructed is 72. There are two types of flats ? A
two-bed-room flat and a single-bed-room flat. The rent of the former has been
provisionally fixed at Rs. 220 p.m. and of the latter at Rs. 175 p.m. Provisional rent has
been fixed as complete information about the cost of construction has not been supplied by
the landlord. Out of the 72 flats. Government have taken over 65 flats of which 59 are
already occupied and 6 have been allotted to officers on the waiting list. (d) No.
Prof.
N. G. Ranga : Why have Government a soft corner for this prince of contractors Sardar
Bahadur Sir Sobha Single ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not see any soft corner here.
Prof. N. G.
Ranga : Is it not a fact that they have been favouring him in preference to so many
other contractors ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Not at all. Sir.
439
[f.8]
Supply of Essentials and Other Facilities to Workers in Mica Mines at Hazaribagh
1409.
Sjt. Seth Damodar Swroop: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :
(a)
if Government are aware that there is no proper arrangement of water for the workers in
the Mica mines at Hazaribagh and that no medical aid is available for them in spite of the
fact that the area is a well-known epidemic place;
(b)
if Government are aware that though the cost of living has increased from six to nine
times, no dearness or any such allowance is being paid to the workers and that there is no
proper arrangement for sale of rice and other foodgrains at control price at a time when
foodgrains have almost disappeared from the market; and
(c)
whether Government are aware that the Sub-Divisional Officer of the place has ordered the
sale of rice at the rate of two seers and four chataks per rupee while the control price
is three seers and eight chataks per rupee ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Water supply arrangements are not satisfactory and the medical aid now given is not
adequate and there is scope for improvement which the Government of India hope to
undertake shortly by means of Legislation.
(b)
So far as Government is aware, in some cases wages have been increased to include the
dearness allowance while some important concerns are paying dearness allowance in addition
to wages.
Proper
arrangement for sale of rice and other foodgrains at controlled price is a matter for the
Provincial Government, and I would suggest the Honourable Member takes up the matter with
the Provincial Government.
(c) Here again the matter is for total authorities,
and Provincial Government.
440
[f.9]
Grievances of Workers in Mica Mines at Hazaribagh
1410.
Sjt. Seth Damodar Swroop: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether
Government are aware that the money paid by the Joint Mica Mission was never distributed
amongst the workers in the Mica Mines at Hazaribagh ?
(b)
Are Government aware that the factory rules and regulations are mostly disregarded by the
Mica Mines Companies and that the highly objectionable and illegal practice of deducting
one anna per rupee from the workers' wages in the name of Dastoori is openly prevalent
there ?
(c)
Are Government aware that because of the grievances referred to above the Mica Mazdoor
Sangh has been forced to give a clear notice of strike ; if so, what steps Government are
intending to take to satisfy the workers' demands and avert the danger of a strike ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) It is not clear what the Honourable Member is referring to. If the reference is to the
additional cost allowance on the price which the Joint Mica Mission was paying to the
suppliers; I may inform the Honourable Member that the distribution of the allowance was
purely a matter between the employers and the workers.
(b)
The Factories Act and the Payment of Wages Act do not apply to Mica Factories. The
prevalence of the illegal practice referred to by the Honourable Member has been brought
to Government's notice. The practice will, I think disappear if the Government's proposal
to bring mica under Central Control materialises and the Mica Enquiry Committee's
recommendations in this respect are implemented. (c) Yes. The matter is under
investigation.
441
[f.10]
Ban on Giving Works to Contractors Related to Employers of Central P.W.D.
1411. Babu Ram Narayan Singh: (a) Will the Honourable
the Labour Member please state the circumstances which led to the issue of the Labour
Department Circular Memo No. M.S. 21, dated the 14th November, 1944, prohibiting the award
of works to contractors whose relation are working in officers, etc., under the Central
Public Works Department ?
(b)
Is he aware that this circular has caused great discontent and hardship to many highly
reputed and old-established contractors ?
(c)
Do similar orders exist in any other Department of Government ? If so, will he place a
copy of such orders on the table of the House ?
(d)
Was Legal Department of the Government of India consulted before the Labour Department
issued these orders ? If so, what was their opinion ?
(e)
Cannot the purpose of the orders be served if a relation of a contractor who happens to
work in the same Division is transferred to some other Division or other station ? If not,
how ?
(f)
Will he please consider the advisability of cancelling these orders ? If not, what are the
reasons ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a), (b), (c), (e) and (f) The Honourable Member's attention is invited to the reply given
to starred question No. 1143, on 21st March, 1946; (d) No. It. is purely an administrative
matter.
442