44E2. Dr. Ambedkar As The Member of Ex.Gov.Gen.Council QA

Dr. Ambedkar As The Member of Executive Governor General Council

Questions and Answers

______________________________________________

PART II

From 14th September 1942 to 12th April 1946

*[f1] Help to Dependants of Enemy Air Raid Victims

183. Mr. H. A. Sathar H. Essak Sait: Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state :

(a) the arrangements that have been made to succour the heirs and dependants of those who are killed or injured as a result of enemy bombing in India ;

(b) whether such arrangements for their succour will come into play immediately after the raids or the dependants are expected to go through the formalities of putting up applications and undergoing enquiries, etc., before help is rendered to them; and

(c) the details of the help that was rendered to the citizens, especially the poorer section of Calcutta and other places in India, which were bombed by the enemy for: (i) the disposal of their dead, (ii) the treatment of the injured, (iii) the toss of their means of livelihood, and (iv) their rehabilitation ge nerally?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b) Provision for relief of persons injured by enemy bombing and of the dependants of those killed by such action has been made in the War Injuries Scheme prepared by Government under the War Injuries Ordinance.

Applications for relief have naturally to be made, but the procedure has been made as expeditious as possible. When the person concerned is incapable of making an application, provision has also been made to entertain applications on his behalf.

Provision has also been made for advances by employers of amounts upto Rs. 50 in each case against awards that may be made in respect of the injury or death.

A copy of the pamphlet containing the War Injuries Ordinance Scheme and Regulations has been placed in the Library of the House.

(c) (i) and (ii) These are matters of Provincial responsibility and the Government of India are not in possession of details as to how they worked. Full advice has been given by the Government of India as to the formation of organisations for corpse disposal and the treatment of the injured and schemes on the lines recommended have in fact been put into operation. The Government of India have been informed by the Provincial Governments that the schemes worked satisfactorily. No complaints or criticisms as to their efficient working have come to the notice of the Government of India.

(iii) and (iv) The Government of India have no detailed information on these points. The scale of raiding has hitherto been light and as far as the information in the possession of the Government of India would indicate, no special problems in this connection have arisen in the case of any bombed area. It is understood that relief under the War Injuries Scheme has been granted in many cases and some cases are under investigation.

Mr. H. A. Sathar H. Essak Sait : With regard to part (b) has my Honourable friend satisfied himself that there was really no complaint of delays ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am not aware of any.

^[f.2] Summaries of the Proceedings of the Fourth Labour Conference and of Meetings of the Standing Labour Committee

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : Sir, I lay on the table a copy^[f.3] each of the following :

(1) Summary of Proceedings of the Fourth Labour Conference (First Tripartite Conference) held on 71.11 August, 1942.

(2) Summary of Proceedings of the First meeting of the Standing Labour Committee held on 30th November and 1st December, 1942.

(3) Summary of Proceedings of the Second meeting of the Standing Labour Committee held on 25th January, 1943.

^[f.4] Desirability of Applying the Control of Rent Act to the Notified Area, Shahdara and Delhi

211. Mr. Muhammad Azhar Ali : Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state :

(a) if it is a fact that most of the workers employed in the industrial, commercial and Government offices at Delhi reside within the Notified Area, Shahdara and Delhi.

(b) if it is a fact that the said workers are mostly low paid staff and are in greater number than the residents of the Notified Area, Civil Station, Delhi, and the newly expanded areas of Daryaganj and Karol Bagh, Delhi, where the Control of Rent Act applies;

(d) if Government propose to apply the Control of Rent Act to the residential buildings within the Notified Area, Shahdara and Delhi, if not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b) I am prepared to take these facts from the Honourable Member.

(c) and (d) It is not administratively practicable to apply the New Delhi House Rent Control Order, 1939, to these areas, but the Punjab Urban Rent Restriction Act has been extended to them.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : What are the reasons for not applying the New Delhi House Rent Control Order, 1939 ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Because one is more expeditious.

^[f.5] House Rent Control Cases in New Delhi

228. Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) the number of cases decided by the Rent Controller, New Delhi, regarding the extension of tendency of houses in New Delhi in 1942;

(b) whether there were cases in which the landlords applied that they required the houses for their own use ;

(c) if the answer to (b) be in the affirmative, how many applications from the landlords were rejected and how many accepted; and

(d) if it is a fact that the rejection of such applications operated harshly against landlords and is against the intention of the Rent Control Order; if so, whether the Honourable Member for Labour proposes to enquire into such cases and to revise the decisions of the Rent Controller, where necessary ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The information asked for is not readily available and its collection would involve an amount of time and Labour that would not be justifiable in war time.

^[f.6] House Rent-Control Cases in New Delhi

^[f.7] 229. Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) the number of cases for the fixation of rent for houses in New Delhi which were decided by the Rent Controller, New Delhi, in 1942;

(b) in how many cases were the landlords asked to submit their objections;

(d) whether the Honourable Member proposes to instruct the Rent Controller to summon landlords in cases referred to in (c) ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) 534. (b) to (c) The information asked for is not readily available and its collection would take an amount of time and Labour that would not be justifiable in war time.

(d) The Controller summons the landlords in all cases where it is necessary to do so for the purpose of determining properly the matters on which he has to adjudicate, and no special instructions are necessary.

^[f.8] House Rent-Control Cases in New Delhi

^[f.9] 230. Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) whether the cases for the extension of tenancy were actually heard during 1942 in New Delhi, by Mr. Jones, late Rent Controller, but decisions were given by his successor without hearing the parties concerned ; if so, what is the number of such cases ; and

(b) whether he proposes to appoint an officer to re-examine such cases ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) No ; the latter part of the question does not arise.

(b) Does not arise.

*[f10] Desirability of Extension of the Punjab Rent Restrictions Act to Entire Delhi Province

231. Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) whether the Punjab Rent Restrictions Act has been applied to some parts of the Delhi Province ;

(b)if it is a fact that the areas covered by the Rent Control Order have been excluded from the operation of that Act; and

(c) whether the Honourable Member proposes to withdraw the Rent Control Order and advise Government to extend the application of the said Act to those areas also ; if not, why not?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) and (b) Yes.

(c) No. The Rent Control Order provides a speedy method of determining the fair rent of a house not provided for by the Punjab Act and I do not see any reason for withdrawing the Order.

^[f.11]House Rent Control in Simla

^[f.12]232. Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: (a) Is the Honourable the Labour Member aware that in 1940 the rents of private properties in Simla were reduced considerably owing to the retention of the civil Departments of the Government of India in Delhi and that a large number of houses remained vacant or were leased on a nominal rent by the landlords concerned during the course of that year ? If so, does Government propose not to determine the rents for that year as basic rents under the Rent Control Order ?

(b) Is the Honourable Member aware that the cost of repairs has gone up very high and that the Punjab Government have imposed a new tax of 7 V per cent on the properly under a new Act ?

(c) Are 'Government aware that the landlords in Simla are suffering Financially from the restrictions imposed by the Government concerned in one way or the other ?

(d) Does the Honourable Member propose to amend The House Control Order for Simla, so as to determine the rents for 1939 as basic rents plus 25 per cent on account of the increased cost of repairs or alternatively to withdraw the Rent Control Order and to apply the Punjab Rent Restrictions Act instead ? If not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Rents at the beginning of 1940 were lower than in 1939 when landlords had raised rents to an unreasonably high figure. Houses were not, however, rented at nominal rents in 1940, and the Government of India considered that the rents of 1940 were fair rents to take as basic rents under the Rent Control Order.

(b) Yes.

(c) Landlords are not suffering financially from the restrictions imposed upon them by Government but they are prevented from making more than reasonable profit on their properties.

(d) No ; the Rent Control Order is an emergency measure designed to expedite decision regarding rents of houses. If Punjab Urban Rent Restriction Act is enforced instead, the tenants will have to seek redress in the Civil Courts which will not only be expensive but will take a long time to arrive at a decision.

^[f.13]Allotment of Central Government Employees' Quarters to Staff of Total Schools, etc.

^[f.14] 234. Mr. Muhammad Azhar Ali : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour please slate if he is aware of the fact that the Public Works Department quarters specially built for the Central Government employees are allotted to the staff of the total schools and courts in preference to the Central Government servants of certain Departments ?

(b) Is he aware that the purely temporary staff of the so-called " entitled offices " is given preference over the permanent staff of other offices who are drawing higher salaries notwithstanding the toss of revenue to Government ?

(d) Is it a fact that the Railway clearing Accounts Office was treated as non-entitled but that decision has since been changed ?

(e) Does the Honourable Member propose to review the position and take stops to treat all the Central Government offices alike ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:

(a) These quarters are meant for employees of the Central Government and of the Total Administration of Delhi posted in New Delhi and Delhi and may be allotted to such employees working in Schools and Courts.

(b) I am prepared to accept that the operation of the rules may have led to the result suggested by the Honourable Member.

(c)A more liberal interpretation of the rules regarding offices entitled to this accommodation has recently been adopted and it is possible that as a result there may be some anomalies.

(d) Yes.

(e) I am prepared to examine the case of any particular office brought to my notice, but do not propose to undertake a general review.

^[f.15]Private Houses leased by Government in Delhi

252. Sardar Sant Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member kindly state the number of private houses leased by Government in the different areas in Delhi, e.g., New Delhi, Notified area, Karol Bagh, Darya Gunj, etc. separately ? (b) When were the First and the last houses leased in each area ?

(a) Is it a fact that all houses were leased before the winter season began ? If not, how many were leased after the beginning of the winter season ?

(b) On what basis is the rent paid by Government to the owners of these buildings, how were the houses classified for purposes of allotment and how were they allotted according to that classification ?

(d) How is the rent charged for these houses from the allottees ? (g) Is it a fact that it cannot be more than 10 per cent of their pay ? (h) When were the first and the last houses occupied in each area, separately, during 1942-43? (I) Is it a fact that several houses are still vacant ?

(j) How much toss have Government incurred by the difference in payments to owners as a whole and the actual rents realised from the tenants ?

(k) How much toss have Government incurred by the houses remaining vacant for months ?

(l) Was Government not aware of the probable demands ?

(m) Is it a fact that in certain cases rents paid to owners were more than the rents realised by them immediately prior to their leasing to Government ? If so, why, and who is responsible for this toss and what action do Government propose to take against the officers responsible for this ?

(n) What does Government propose to do for the next year ?

(o) Will they still require more houses on lease or will they release some out of those already leased ?

(p) Are Government prepared to have an Enquiry Committee to look into the leasing of houses in the past to allay any suspicion that Government were put to unnecessary toss due to the negligence of officers and want of proper estimate of news ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b) A statement containing the information asked for is laid on the table of the House.

(e) No. Forty six houses were leased after the commencement of the winter season.

(f) Government have paid the “ fair rent “ as determined under the provisions of the New Delhi Rent Control Order, 1939.

Flats in houses suitable for allotment to officers were classified as those suitable for officers with wives and families, and those suitable for officers with wives only and were allotted accordingly in accordance with the principle that the houses carrying higher rental were allotted to higher paid officers. Houses suitable for clerks were not classified and were allotted in accordance with the above mentioned principle.

(g) None. The houses were not divided into types but the principle “ higher rented accommodation for higher paid officer “ was always followed in allotting available houses.

(h) Rent is calculated in accordance with the rules and is recovered from the allottees at ten per cent of the emoluments or the full rent whichever is less.

(i) Yes ; ten per cent of emoluments and not pay. (h), (j) and (k) The information asked for is not readily available and its collection would involve an amount of time and Labour that would not be justifiable in war-time. It is impossible that in a large housing estate all houses will be full all the time—some toss is bound to occur from occasional vacancies and from the operation of the ten per cent rule.

(j) None of the leased houses in New Delhi and Darya Gunj are vacant and only four suites of accommodation suitable for officers and three suites of accommodation suitable for clerks are vacant in Karol Bagh.

(k) Government was fully aware.

(m) The rents paid were those Fixed by the Rent Controller. So far as is known, in cases where houses had previously been leased, these did not exceed rents previously paid. The latter parts of the question do not arise.

(n) and (o) Government is not in a position to give a definite answer. It is probable that Government will want more houses.

279. No. In view of my reply to other parts of this question, this does not seem to be necessary.

STATEMENT

(a) New Delhi	122	Bungalows and flats
Notified Area	8	Bungalows
Karol Bagh	143	Flats including accommodation suitable for clerks
Darya Gunj	34	Flats suitable for clerks only.

First House Based on	Last House based on
(b) New Delhi	1-4-41	2-2-43
Notified Area	1-6-41	31-12-42
Karol Bagh	7-7-42	15-1-43
Darya Gunj	15-8-42	25-10-42

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : May I know why some of the houses are lying vacant; are they not required by officers and clerks ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: There must be some temporary reason of which I am not at present aware.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Is there a demand for more houses for clerks or officers, or not ? Or have you got a full complement ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I must have notice of that question.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Is it not a fact that Government had to provide so many tents for the accommodation of officers and other people ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R.Ambedkar : That is quite so.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : This shows that sufficient number of houses are not available.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes.

^[f.16] Improvements in the Combined “ C “ Type Quarters in New Delhi

279. Sardar Sant Singh : (a) With reference to the answer to part (f) of starred question No. 437, asked on the 18^th March, 1940, will the Honourable the Labour Member please state what improvements in the combined “ C “ type orthodox quarters in New Delhi were asked for in the representations received by Government, either through Tenants’ Associations or from individual residents of such quarters ?

(l) What would have been the cost of all the additions and alterations asked for per quarter ?

(m) Have any additions or alterations been made in any clerks’ or officers’ quarters in New Delhi since the 18^th March, 1940 ? If so, which are the different classes of quarters in which such additions, etc., have been made ?

(n) What was the amount of expenditure incurred on each different class of quarter so added to or altered ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :

(o) A statement containing the information is laid on the table of the House.

(p) and (d) The information is not readily available and its collection would involve an amount of time and Labour that would not be justifiable in war time.

(q) Yes. Additions and alterations were made in “ A “, “ B “, “ C “, “ D “ and “ E “ type quarters.

Statement

(i)The kitchen, the bath and store rooms at the existing sites be dismantled and new ones constructed in lieu thereof in the open space in the courtyard between the latrines and bath room, and a long verandah be provided in front of all the three rooms.

(ii) A window may be provided in each of the rooms towards the inner verandah to make the rooms well ventilated.

(iii) A window may be provided adjoining the outer entrance of the first room.

(iv) A door may be constructed in the room on the other extreme opening on the outer verandah.

(r) One more water tap may be provided.

(vi) A servant room.

(vii) An additional bath room with a window therein.

(viii) Standard type ventilators in all the rooms and closing of the existing holes in the ceiling.

(ix) Wooden mantles in all the rooms without fire places.

(x) Wall almirahs in all the rooms.

(xi) Increasing the inner verandah accommodation, etc.

^[f.17]Improvements in the Combined “ C” Type Quarters in New Delhi

280. Sardar Sant Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the cost of making the following alterations in each combined “ C “ type orthodox quarter in New Delhi :

281. fitting in of a window in the front room ;

(ii) provision of regular ventilators, like those provided in other types of quarters, in all the three rooms ;

(iii) providing a pucca floor in the courtyard; and

(iv) providing another window in the kitchen ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Rs. 415 per quarter.

^[f.18]Improvements in the Combined “ C “ Type Quarters in New Delhi

282. Sardar Sant Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please slate whether it is a fact that all “ D “ type orthodox quarters in the D.I.Z. Area, New Delhi, were provided with pucca floors in the courtyard in 1940 or 1941 ?

(b) what is the number of such quarters and other quarters in which this modification was made ?

(c) What is the total number of combined “ C “ type quarters which are totalled in the midst of these “ D “ type quarters ?

(d) What would have been the cost of providing pucca floors in all of these combined “ C “ type quarters ?

(e) What was the amount spent on all “ D “ type quarters in which this modification was made ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Yes.

(b)1079.

(d) Rs. 13,500 at present day prices.

(e) Rs. 29,415.43

^[f.19] Inspection of Combined “C” Type Quarters in New Delhi

282. Sardar Sant Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please refer to the answer to two supplementary questions to starred question No. 438 answered on the 18^th March, 1940, in which the then Labour Member promised to inspect the combined “ C “ type quarters in New Delhi, and stale whether he actually inspected these quarters ? If so, does he propose to lay on the table a copy of his report on the matter ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : No. The latter part of the question does not arise.

^[f.20] Improvements in “ D “ Type Orthodox Quarters in New Delhi

283. Sardar Sant Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether it is a fact that in 1940 when the galleries inside the “ D “ type orthodox quarters in the D.I.Z. Area, New Delhi, were covered, a suggestion was made that ventilators provided in the walls of the two rooms on either side of the gallery should be of glass case so that they might be closed ?

(b) Is it a fact that only wire gauze ventilators with big holes were provided, instead of the old type glass-case ones, on the ground that the Health Officer, New Delhi, objected to the provision of the latter type of ventilators as being unhealthy ?

(c) Is it a fact that it was proposed to cover up the open space between the bath room and lavatory in these quarters in order to provide shelter for storing fuel, etc. ?

(d) Is it a fact that this covering up was also objected to by the Health Department, New Delhi ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Yes.

(b) No.

( d) No.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdul Rahim) : The answers to the other questions of Sardar Sant Singh will be laid on the table.

^[f.21]Inspection of Combined “ C” Type Quarters in New Delhi

^[f.22]284. Sardar Sant Singh : (a) Will the Education Secretary please state whether the Health Officer, New Delhi, was ever invited to inspect the residential accommodation in New Delhi, and to see that all accommodation for living purposes was provided with proper ventilation, etc. ?

(b) If the answer to (a) be in the affirmative, did this officer ever inspect the combined “ C “ type quarters in the D.I.Z. Area, New Delhi ?

(c)If the answer to (b) be in the affirmative, did the said officer submit any report either to the New Delhi Municipal Committee or to the Government of India about the suitability or unsuitability of the rooms in those quarters for use as bed rooms, etc. ? If so, does he propose to lay a copy of that re port on the table of the House? If he did not submit any report, why not ?

(d)If the Health Officer was never invited to inspect these quarters, what were the reasons for not doing so ? Is he prepared to issue instructions that these quarters are thoroughly inspected at an early date ? If not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) No.

(b) and (c) Do not arise.

(d) The design of these quarters was approved by the Municipal Committee before they were constructed and Government have not considered it necessary to have these quarters inspected by the Health Officer. I am however arranging to have these quarters inspected by the Health Officer.

^[f.23]Transfer to Lien to Allottees of Combined “ C” Type Quarters in New Delhi

^[f.24] 285. Sardar Sant Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether it is a fact that up to last year the allottees of the combined “ C “ type quarters in New Delhi on Maud, Ibbetson and Reading Roads, were allowed, on application, to exchange their quarters with lien with the regular “ C “ type quarters in Havetock Square, Baird Road, Market Road, Irwin Road, etc., as and when such quarters were available ?

(b) What was the longest period which it look to allot a regular “ C “ type quarter to an allottee of combined “ C “ type quarter in cases where such allottees asked for an exchange from the very time of allotment of such combined quarters to them ?

(c)Will the present allottees of such combined quarters be allowed to exchange with lien this year ? If not, why not ?

(d) What is the total number of quarters (regular “ C “ type) in the squares and roads mentioned in (a) above which will fall vacant this year due to the present allottees having to vacate them permanently for some reason or other, like retirement or allotment of a higher type of quarter ?

(e)Does he propose to see that at least the tenants of these combined “ C “ quarters are allowed to exchange with lien if they so want ? If not, why ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) The information asked for is not readily available and its collection would involve an amount of time and Labour that would not be justifiable in war time.

(c)and (e) Yes. : the revised rules are being altered to allow of this as soon as possible.

(d) The information cannot be given unless all applications for next summer and winter seasons are received in.

^[f.25] The War Injuries (Compensation Insurance) Bill

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : Sir, I move for leave to introduce a Bill to impose on employers a liability to pay compensation to workmen sustaining war injuries and to provide for the insurance of employers against such liability.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdul Rahim): The question is:

“ That leave be granted to introduce a Bill to impose on employers a liability to pay compensation to workmen sustaining; war injuries and to provide for the insurance of employers against such liability.” The motion was adopted.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I introduce the Bill.

^[f.26] Dismissals of Instructors, etc., in the Technical Training Centre, Delhi Polytechnic

311. Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please refer to part (c) of the reply to unstarred question No. 75, on the 25^th March 1942, and stale the reason for frequent dismissals of Instructors and Assistant Instructors in the Technical Training Centre, Delhi Polytechnic, especially when there is an acute shortage of skilled men ?

(b) Is it a fact that some Muslims have been discharged without any reason being assigned therefor ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Fourteen Instructors have been discharged since the 1^st April, 1942, 13 for inefficiency and one for political activity. (b) According to my information, no.

^[f.27] Grievances of Employees in the Binding Department of the Government of India Press, New Delhi

312. Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether the entire employees of the Government of India Press, New Delhi, went on strike on the 1^st and 2^nd December, 1942 and that on the 2^nd December, 1942, the Labour Secretary went there and was presented with six demands and that one of the demands was for the annual increment to the Binding Department and that the start of the salary should be from Rs. 30 per mensem and that within the period of 20 years the salary should reach the maximum grade of Rs. 75 per mensem ?

(b) Is it or is it not a fact that the Binding Department since 1927 has been submitting questions and memorials to the Works Committee for an annual increment, and has been putting questions in the Assembly, and the Press Union has also submitted a memorial ?

(b) Is it or is it not a fact that people are receiving a certain pay since the last 15/20 years and most of them, after having paid from their salaries the usual cuts, i.e., for Fund, Society, Water, Quarters, etc., receive only 10/12 rupees per month, with which it is not possible for them to make ends meet easily ?

(d) Is it a fact that the Union of the Binding Department had submitted a memorial to the Secretary, Labour Department, in November, 1942 in which it was laid down that until the annual increment is or forced, the employees of the Binding Department should not be retired before 25 years’ service and in this way they be compensated a little?

(e)Are Government prepared to retain the people in the Binding Department until they have put in 25 years’ service ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes, with the exception of the supervising staff and a few other employees. The question of the introduction of a time-scale of pay in the bindery is receiving attention.

(b) Yes.

(d)No. The Press Workers Union submitted a representation in November 1942. But it does not contain the prayer as slated.

(e) No. No employee is ordinarily required to retire before he attains the age of 55 years.

^[f.28] Grievances of Employees in the Binding Department of the Government of India Press, New Delhi

^[f.29]313. Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if it is a fact that there are some persons in the Binding Department of the Government of India Press, New Delhi, who are getting Rs. 30 per mensern ?

(b) Is it a fact that the office mistakenly cut down their service and uptill now that service has not been restored to them with the result that for years they are getting Rs. 30 per mensem though others who are of less service are getting more, for instance those who used to get Rs. 22 and Rs. 25 per mensem are at present getting Rs. 40 and Rs. 45 per mensem ?

(c) Is it a fact that those whose services have been cancelled have submitted a memorial to the Controller requesting him for the inclusion of their past service in their present service ?

(d)Are Government prepared to include the service of those whose service has been cancelled ? If so, is it possible to make them senior to those who superseded them ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Yes.

(b) Condonation does not imply that the period previous to the break be counted as service for fixing the pay to be drawn after the break and no mistake has been made.

^[f.30] Paucity of Muslim Engineers, etc. in the Central Public Works Department

319. Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state, community-wise, the number of Superintending Engineers, Executive Engineers and Sub-Divisional Officers (gazetted and non-gazetted) employed in the Central Public Works Department inclusive of the Aviation and Access Road Works ?

(b) Is it a fact that Muslims are under-represented in each of the cadres mentioned above ? If so, what action do Government propose to take to make up the under-representation of Muslims ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) A statement is placed on the table, (b) Yes. The under-representation of Muslims is due to the fact that most of the appointments were made for Aviation works which were urgent and important and required a large number of experienced and qualified officers. Owing to the Japanese threat to India, these officers were required at the shortest notice, and appointments according to the strict communal roster would have led to delay which would have been highly prejudicial to the defence of the country. All the appointments in regard to which communal rules have not been observed, are temporary only, and irregularities will be put right as soon as the present emergency ceases.

Statement

Designation of Officers	Europians	Anglo-Indians	Hindus	Muslims	Sikhs	Indian Christians	Parsis	Total
Superintending Engineers	5		3		2			10
Executive Engineers	12	4	35	5	1	5		62
Sub-Divisional Officers Gazetted (Assistant Executive Engineers	1	5	25	6	2	4		43
Sub-Divisional Officers Gazetted (Temporary Officers)	-	4	43	4	3		1	55
Sub-Divisional Officers (Non-gazetted	-	3	124	23	22	1		173

Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : Are we to understand that when urgent appointments are made, it is only the unfortunate, Muslim community that has to suffer ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: That is not the only unfortunate community; there are other communities which are equally affected.

Maulvi Muhammad Abdul Ghani : Do Government propose to recruit Muslim officers from provinces if they are found fit ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Yes.

Mr. Jamnadas M. Mehta : When the communal proportion is restored, will those who have already been appointed be dismissed ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: They are all temporary appointments.

Mr. Jamnadas M. Mehta : So they will be dismissed.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : They are temporary. There is no question of dismissal.

Mr. Jamnadas M. Mehta continued standing in his seat even after putting the question.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): When the Honourable Member has asked a question, he ought to resume his seat.

Mr. Jamnadas M. Melita : I want to ask another question. Sir. That means that those who came to your assistance—at the critical moment will be given a short shrill?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: The appointments are temporary and there is no question of dismissal or discharge.

Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha : What is the duration of these temporary appointments ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: It is quite impossible to say.

Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha : Is it not laid down in the rules or in the resolution passed by the Government that any temporary appointment for three months and over should be made in accordance with the Resolution of the Government keeping in view the percentages of various communities ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : All that must be subject to emergency.

^[f.31]New Assistant Estate Officers and Assistants to the Estate Officer

320. Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour please slate the number of the new posts of Assistant Estate Officers and Assistants to the Estate Officer created during the last two years ?

(b) Has any of the above posts been given to a Muslim ? If not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Number of Assistant Estate Officers—three ; number of Assistants to the Estate Officer— one.

(b) No.

Three of the posts were filled by selection and promotion from among the Superintendents in the Chief Engineer's Office. This is the normal method of recruitment to these posts. No suitable Muslim Superintendent was available. The fourth post was filled by an Officer temporarily on deputation from the Burma P.W.D.

Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: May I know if Mr. Karim Baksh was the senior most Superintendent at the time when these posts were filled up ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I want notice.

Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: May I know if Mr. Brown, Mr. Grant, Mr. Ellis, and Mr. Bronkhurst held the posts of Superintendent ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I must have notice of that.

Mr. Muhammad Nauman : May I know whether all enquiries were made, whether other people were efficient or not, and when the Honourable Member wants notice for everything, he must have come here with proper replies if no Muslim was found fit ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no doubt that proper enquiries must have been made.

Mr. Muhammad Nauman : But the Honourable Member has no information on that at least.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : That is not a question. Next question.

^[f.32] Contracts in Aviation Works

321. Khan Bahadur Shaikh Fazl-i-Haq Piracha: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state whether it is a fact that in the case of Aviation works it has been the practice of Government to award contracts for emergency works by private negotiations without calling for tenders ?

(b) What is the total value of contracts awarded by private negotiations during the calendar year 1942 ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The information asked for by the Honourable Member is being collected and will be laid on the table in due course.

^[f.33] Grievances of the Staff of the Binding Department of the Government of India Press, New Delhi

338. Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if it is a fact that as the annual increment is not given to the people of the Binding Department of the Government of India Press, New Delhi, they wish to go to other Departments when vacancies fall vacant there, but their applications are not forwarded ?

(b) Is it or is it not a fact that some people were given a trial in which they were successful, but they have not been provided with a situation until now ?

(c) Is it or is it not a fact that many a time the Manager has been asked that until the annual increment is enforced in the Binding Department, those who are already working in that Department should be given a chance and situations should be provided for successful candidates in preference to outsiders, but the Manager did not heed these requests ?

(d) Are Government prepared to take the successful candidates in the ' Distributory ' section so that those who have passed the test may not suffer?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) No. Transfer of industrial employees from one establishment to another is governed by the National Service (Technical Personnel) Ordinance, 1940.

The application of one warehouseman who applied last January for service in the Air Force was in fact forwarded.

(b) One warehouseman qualified as a distributor in the test held in 1941. As there were other candidates who had qualified earlier and as the post of distributor does not lie in the ordinary range of promotion of warehousemen, the qualified warehouseman was not appointed to the vacancies that occurred.

(d) The successful candidates will be considered for distributors' posts in accordance with the rules.

Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : As regards the answer to part (d) of the question may I know the position exactly as regards those who had been given a trial and were found successful ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I said, there were other candidates who had qualified earlier.

Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : But as far as those persons who were found successful are concerned, will their claims be considered ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Certainly.

^[f.34]Selection Grade Posts in the Binding Department of the Government of India Press, New Delhi

339. Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : (a) When selection posts have been announced in nearly all the Departments of the Government of India Press, New Delhi, will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state why no such selection grade posts are given to the Binding Department ?

(b) Is it or is it not a fact that previously the strength of the Binding Department was 50/60 persons and for the supervision of their work there was one foreman, one Jamadar and one Binding Examiner, but now that the strength has increased to 135 persons, there are still only three persons in the supervisory rank ?

(c) Are Government prepared to divide the Binding Department into two sections and provide one more Foreman, Jamadar and Examiner ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) There is a selection I post of Bindery and Warehouse Foreman in the Bindery of the Press.

(b) The previous strength was over sixty and there was only one supervisory post of a Bindery Warehouse Foreman. The present strength in the Bindery is 107 including 20 temporary war posts and there are now three persons in the supervisory rank.

Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : I did not quite catch the reply of the Honourable Member. May I know whether he admits the increase of numbers that I have given ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes. I said that the present strength in the Bindery is 107.

Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi: With that increase, will the Honourable Member consider the advisability of increasing the supervisory staff in view of the increase in the number of the lower paid ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I will consider.

^[f.35] Grievances of the Piece Workers in the Machine Department of the Government of India Press, New Delhi

340. Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether or not it is a fact that there are several persons in the Machine Department of the Government of India Press, New Delhi, who are employed on piece work and several on salary ?

(b) Is it a fact that all piece workers are not given an equal amount of work with the result that some got more wages than others ?

(c) Is it not a fact that officials show partiality and favour to some in the allotment of work in such a way that there is a very unequal distribution of wages and the wages of a large number of piece workers amount to very little and do not suffice for their requirements and the maintenance of their families ?

(d) Do Government propose to consider the advisability of giving equal work to all, so that at the end of the month all should have a nearly equal amount of pay and thus redress their grievances ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) The answer to the first part is in the negative. The second part does not arise.

(d) This is actually done but equal work does not ensure equal earning. The attention of the Honourable Member is invited to the reply to part (c) of starred question No. 85 given in this House on 17th February 1941.

Qaxi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi: May I know whether the Honourable Member has made an enquiry into the allegation that the actual distribution of the work at present does not give equal wages to the persons employed ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: The answer is based on enquiry.

^[f.36]Annual Election for the Works Committee of the Government of India Press, New Delhi

341. Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact that the annual election for the Works Committee of the Government of India Press, New Delhi, which is held on 8th April, is not properly conducted ?

(b) Is it or is it not a fact that the voters are not called one by one but all the voters gather together and stand in the room where the votes are received ?

(c) Are Government prepared to make proper arrangements for keeping the voters away from the clerk concerned, and to allow only those to come forward who are called to give their votes ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b) No.

Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : Did the Honourable Member make an enquiry as to the complaints that were made to the polling officer at the time the votes were taken and satisfy himself that there were complaints of the kind that I have made in the question ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : No. I will make enquiries if the necessity arises.

Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi: Now that I have put the question, will the Honourable Member be pleased to make an enquiry whether it is a fact that the complaints that are made are correct ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes.

^[f.37]Fall in Coal Output of Bengal and Bihar Coal Fields

349. Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact that the output of coal in the Bengal and Bihar coal fields in the year 1942 was considerably less than that of the previous years ? If so, what were the percentages separately of the decrease as compared to the output for the years 1939, 1940 and 1941? What are the factors responsible for this reduction in output ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : No. The output of coal in the Bengal and Bihar coal fields for 1942 was very considerably above that for 1939. The peak year to date has been 1940. There was a very slight drop in 1941 on the 1940 figures and a further slight drop in 1942. The total drop on the 1940 figures is less than one per cent.

As the drop in production is so slight no detailed enquiry has been held into its cause.

Mr. K. C. Neogy: Has any representation been made to the Government of India by the trade interests on this particular point, mentioning any grievance due to which this drop might have occurred ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I have no information as yet.

^[f.38]Criterion for Enlistment of Contractors in Central Public Works Department

417. Mr. Ananga Mohan Dam : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the criterion for the enlistment of contractors in the Central Public Works Department ? Is this enlistment subject to any fee ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Enlistment of contractors in the Central Public Works Department is made with due regard to their financial status and their experience as evidenced by the extent and quality of the works previously executed by them. In the case of firms, registration under Indian Partnership Act, 1932, is also insisted upon as an essential condition. The answer to the latter part of the question is in the negative.

[f.39] Muslims in the Offices and the Subordinate Engineering Services of the Central Public Works Department

418. Maulvi Muhammad Abdul Ghani: Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state :

(a) the total strength of the class I and Class II Officers and the Subordinate Engineering Services of the Central Public Works Department.

(b) the strength of Muslims in each of the categories given in part (a) ; and (c) what steps have been taken so far to make up the deficiency, if any ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Class 1—122. Class II—63.

Subordinate Engineering Service—1179. (b) Class 1—14. Class II—4.

Subordinate Engineering Service—202.

(c) Attention of the Honourable Member is invited to the answer given to part (b) of the starred question No. 319 on the 16th March 1943.

^[f.40] Proposed Retrenchment Scheme for Engineering Establishment of the Central Public Works Department

419. Maulvi Muhammad Abdul Ghani: Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state if a retrenchment scheme for the Engineering Establishment of the Central Public Works Department is under contemplation ? If so, will Muslim employees be affected by it even if their strength is short of 25 per cent of the total strength ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Not at present. The second part of the question does not arise.

^[f.41]Muslim Lino Operators, Mono Operators, etc., in the Government of India Press, Calcutta

420. Hajee Chowdhury Muhammad Ismail Khan : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the number of Lino Operators, Mono operators, Mono Casters and forme carriers in the Government of India, Press, Calcutta, and how many of them are Muslims ?

(b) What is the total number of appointments made in these grades during the last three years, and how many Muslims were appointed in each of these grade s?

(c) What steps have been taken to appoint Muslims in these posts ? (d) Does the Honourable Member propose to place on the table of the House a detailed statement showing the figures, community-wise, in regard to posts of clerks and copy-holders in permanent and temporary employ in the Government of India Press, Calcutta ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a), (b) and (d). A statement is laid on the table.

Statement

Post (Permanent)	Number	No. of Muslims
Lino Operators	6	2
Mono Operators	6	1
Mono Casters	10
Forme Carriers:
Permanent	12	Nil
Temporary	10	Nil

Statement showing the total number of appointments made in the posts of Lino Operators, Mono Operators, Mono Casters and Forme Carriers in the Government of India Press, Calcutta, in 1940, 1941 and 1942.

Post (Permanent)			Appointment in
	1940		1941	1942
Lino Operators Mono Operators Mono Casters	Nil		Nil	Nil
Forme Carriers (Permanent & Temporary)	Nil		Nil	Nil
Statement Showing Communal composition of clerks		and copy-holders (Permanent and
temporary) in the Government of India Press, Calcutta.

Total Number		Hindus		Muslim	Anglo Indian	Indian Christian
		Other Than Scheduled Caste	Scheduled Caste
Clerk (excluding computers, Time Keepers etc.) :
Permanent	43	31	1	10	1	Nil
Temporary	7	5	Nil	1	Nil	1
Copy-holders:
Permanent	34	23	Nil	5	2	Nil
Temporary	4	3	Nil	1	Nil	Nil
(Regular) Temporary	5	2	Nil	2	Nil	1
(for limited period)

^[f.42]Muslim Executive Engineers in the Central Public Works Department

421. Maulvi Muhammad Abdul Ghani : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state how many Executive Engineers have been taken in from the various Provinces in the Central Public Works Department during the last two years and how many of them are Muslims ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Twenty-two, of whom two were Muslims. Three, including one Muslim, have been since reverted.

^[f.43] Temporary Buildings in New Delhi

422. Sir F. E. James : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state:

(a) whether his attention has been drawn to the notice erected near certain temporary buildings in course of construction in Connaught Place, intimating that these buildings are to be demolished immediately after the war; and

(b) if the same condition applies to the temporary buildings erected on Queens way ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Yes.

(b) All the buildings have been constructed as temporary buildings. The intention is that they shall be pulled down as soon as may be after the conclusion of the war, though no final decision has yet been taken.

Sir F. E. James: Will the Honourable Member explain the difference between immediately after the war and ' as soon as may be ', because some of the buildings in Connaught Place are placarded as ' to be demolished immediately after the war ' ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not think the placard makes any difference.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Why should they be demolished and not used for some other purpose ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I said, no final decision has yet been taken.

^[f.44] Paucity of Muslim Officers in the Printing and Stationery Establishment under Labour Department

423. Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state whether the Controller of Printing and Stationery, the Deputy Controller, Stationery, the Assistant Controller, Printing, the Assistant Controller, Stationery, and the Assistant Secretary and the Superintendent of the Printing Branch in the Labour Department are all non-Muslims ? If so, what steps do Government propose to take to give due representation to Muslims in these posts ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The reply to the first part of the question is in the affirmative except that the present Superintendent of the Stationery and Printing Branch in the Labour Department is a Muslim. All posts mentioned in the question are ordinarily filled by promotion on merit and the communal representation rules do not apply to cases of promotion to selection posts. In the case of appointments to be made subject to communal considerations the rules are and will be followed. Government do not consider that any other steps are necessary.

Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : May I ask the Honourable Member if it is a fact that when two incumbents of the same qualifications were in the field, a Muslim was appointed on Rs. 50 and a non-Muslim of the same qualification was appointed on Rs. 200.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I have no information.

Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur: Will you kindly make inquiries.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I will make inquiries.

^[f.45] Paucity of Muslim Officers in Printing and Stationery Establishment under Labour Department

424. Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state the number of Muslim gazetted officers in the office of the Controller of Priming and Stationery, the Central Stationery Office, Calcutta, the Central Publication Branch, and the various Government of' India Presses ?

(b) Is it a fact that the post of Assistant Controller in the office of the Controller, Printing and Stationery, has ever since its creation been held either by Bengali Hindus or Christians and a Muslim has never been considered for this appointment ? If so, why ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Two. One in the Forms Press, Calcutta and the other in the Government of India Press, New Delhi.

(b) The answer to the first part is in the negative. As regards the second part, I may say that this post is filled by promotion and not by direct recruitment. There has never been any Muslim senior enough to be considered.

Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : In this connection may I ask the Honourable Member if it is a fact that the Muslim appointed on Rs. 50 having found no prospects of being promoted got himself transferred to Bengal where he is getting Rs. 225 and the man who was appointed on Rs. 200 is now getting Rs. 350 and the claim of the Muslim who is already senior and also drawing Rs. 250 has been overlooked ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no information but if my Honourable friend so desires, I can make inquiries.

Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur: Will you kindly make inquiries ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Yes.

^[f.46] Paucity of Muslim Officers in Printing and Stationery Establishments under Labour Department

425. Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state : (a) the present strength of the Assistant Managers of the various Government of India Presses and how many of them are Muslim ?

(b) the number of Muslim Assistants and clerks, separately, in the Printing Branch of the Labour Department, and in the Administration Branch of the office of the Controller of Printing and Stationery ; and

(c) the number of Muslim Superintendents in the office of the Controller of Printing and Stationery and in the Publication Branch ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Three. One of them is a Muslim.

(b) In the Stationery and Printing Branch of the Labour Department there is one Muslim Assistant and in the Administrative and Finance Branch of the Controller's Office one Assistant and one clerk.

^[f.47]

Discrimination Between Muslim and Non-Muslim Apprentices in the Printing and Stationery Department

426. Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state whether it is a fact that suitable men are trained as apprentices in the Printing and Stationery Department of the Government of India?

(b) Are these persons eligible for appointment to higher posts in the various presses ?

(c) Is it a fact that one such apprentice, Mr. B. C. Sen Gupta, has been appointed in the Government of India Press, New Delhi, on Rs. 200 per mensern and another such apprentice—a Muslim—was not given any suitable job and had ultimately to get himself transferred to the Government Press, Calcutta, as Assistant Manager ?

(d) If the reply to part (c) is in the affirmative, what are the reasons for such discrimination ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) Yes, they are eligible, but have no specific claim.

(c) Mr. Sen Gupta was initially appointed by mistake on the old scale of Rs. 200-10-250. On discovery of the mistake he was brought on to the proper new scale starting at Rs. 100.

The Muslim was appointed in the proper new scale starting at Rs. 100.

Since then both have been promoted.

(d) Does not arise.

Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : May I know if both of them have been promoted to the same scale of salary ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I should think so.

^[f.48] Repair of Machines of the Government of India Press, New Delhi

427. Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state the amount of expenditure incurred on the total repair of machines of the Government of India Press, New Delhi ?

(b) Is it a fact that there is a mechanical section in the said Press ? If so why are the repairs not carried out there ?

(c) Is it a fact that the Head Mechanic personally gets the parts repaired in the city, and the letter to the firm undertaking repairs never gives instructions regarding the nature of the repairs but simply states that these will be explained by the Head Mechanic ? If so, why are the full details of the repairs not given in the letter to the firm undertaking the repairs ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The total amount spent on total repairs to plant during 1942-43 is Rs. 1,177-2-0.

(b) The answer to the first part is in the affirmative. As regards the second part, only such work is entrusted to an outside agency as cannot be done in the Press. (c) No.

^[f.49]Extra Staff in the Government of India Press, Aligarh

^[f.50]428. Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state how much extra work has been received from the Calcutta Forms Press by the Aligarh Press in connection with the dispersal of stocks of forms, and for that purpose how much extra staff has been appointed by the Manager, Government of India Press, Aligarh ?

(b) Is the staff appointed commensurate with the work received ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) A statement showing the work received up to the 16th March 1943 and the staff appointed is laid on the table. (b) The answer is in the affirmative.

Statement

st. Form No. No.	No. of copies required	Sr. No.	Form No.	No. of copies required
1 I.A.F.A. 176	13,000 books	11	T.A.F.A.-2 (Large)	37,000 books
2I.A.F.O. 1287	3,00,000	12	I.A.F.F.-1068	43,000 books
3 1.A.F.O. 1435	1,400 books	13	IA.F.O. 1367-A	1,50,000
4 I.A.F.M. 1213	1,000 books	14	A.F.O.-1810A	7,500 books
5 I.A.F.Z. 2187A	30,000	15	A.F.W 3010	9,000 books
6 I.A.F.Z. 2197	35,000 books	16	I.A.F.Z. 2135	6,000 books
7 I.A.F.Z. 2011 *	50,000 books	17	S. 90-A	1,00,000
8 I.A.F.Z. 2011 **	40,000 books	18	S. 90-B	50,000
9 I.A.F.Z. 2157	2,500 books	19	S. 97-A	4,00,000
101.A.F.A. 175	7,000 books
* Small ** Large

Statement showing appointments made in connection with the
primary of forms, etc., received from the Forms Press, Calcutta.

3 Compositors on Rs.25.

1 Reader in the grade of Rs. 90-4-110.

1 Copy holder in the grade of Rs. 28-2-38.

3 Stereotypers on Rs. 20.

1 Typesupplier on Rs. 20.

2 Paper Issuers on Rs. 20.

3 Computors in the grade of Rs. 35-2-75.

2 Clerks in the grade of Rs. 35-2-75.

1 General Foreman in the grade of Rs. 125-5-150.

1 Assistant Foreman printer in the grade of Rs. 55-3-70.

1 Assistant Foreman Compositor in the grade of Rs. 50-3-65.

1 Head Computor in the grade of Rs. 70-3-100.

1 (Clerk) Assistant Stationery and Store Keeper in the grade of Rs. 80-4-100.

^[f.51] Complaints Against Manager, Government of India Press, Aligarh

429. Maulvi Syed Murtuza Sahib Bahadur : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state how many envelope-makers have been appointed in the Government of India Press, Aligarh, within one year, and in what proportion of different communities ?

(b) Is it a fact that the Manager, Government of India Press, Aligarh has appointed them without any trial, and most of them are non-Muslims ?

(c) Is it a fact that the Manager, Government of India Press, Aligarh appoints technical staff without any practical test, and always fills in the unreserved posts and sometimes also reserved posts by appointing non-Muslims ? If so why ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) 43 envelope-makers were appointed in 1942 of whom 29 are Hindus II Muslims and 3 belong to other minority communities.

(b) No.

^[f.52] Temporary Rooms, etc., in the South and North Blocks of the Secretariat in New Delhi

431. Bhai Parma Nand:

(a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether it is a fact that some corridors or verandahs in the South and North Blocks of the Secretariat in New Delhi were converted into rooms and are being used as such by the staff of the different Government of India offices ?

(b) Is it a fact that some of these converted rooms face the sun nearly the whole day ?

(d) Is it a fact that some of these rooms are very narrow ?

(e) What is the width of the narrowest of such converted rooms which face the sun nearly the whole day ? What is the number of such rooms ?

(f) What was the temperature in these rooms in the day time, say, in the second fortnight of February, and in the first fortnight of March ? What was the temperature in these converted rooms (facing the sun) during the months of April, May, June, July and October 1942?

(g) Is it a fact that these rooms are just like burning ovens where the staff are roasted for the whole day ?

(h) Have these rooms ever been inspected by any Health Officer to see that they were fit for occupation during the summer ? If so, has his report been that they were fit for occupation ?

(i) if the answer to the latter part of (h) be in the affirmative, are Government prepared to consider the allotment of these rooms to gazetted officers of the various offices concerned and put the staff at present working in them in the rooms originally built for them ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Yes.

(b) Some of these converted rooms, which face South, are exposed to sun in the afternoons.

(d) No.

(e) The narrowest width of these converted rooms is 8 ft. 3 inches. The number of such rooms is 3.

(f)A statement containing the information asked for is laid on the table of the House.

(g) No.

(h) Yes ; these rooms were inspected by the officers of the Health Department but no objection was raised.

(i) Some of these converted rooms were actually occupied by the Gazetted Officers during the last summer season.

Statement

Second fortnight of February	60°F
First fortnight of March	75°F
April 1942	98°F
May 1942	104°F
June 1942	106°F
July 1942	96°F
October 1942	90°F

^[f.53] Insufficient Lighting of Clerks' Lavatories, etc. in the North Block Secretariat, New Delhi

^[f.54]432. Bhai Parma Nand : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if most of the clerks' Lavatories in the North Block Secretariat, New Delhi, specially on the first floor are not fitted with electric bulbs ?

(b) Is it a fact that all the officers' lavatories in that building are equipped with electric bulbs ?

(d) Do Government expect these men to use the lavatories in the dark or do they expect them not to feel the necessity of using lavatories after dark ?

(e) What are the reasons for not providing electric bulbs in the lavatories for clerks only ?

(f) Is it a fact that certain stairs are not sufficiently lighted, or in parts are left without lights after dark ?

(g) Is it a fact that the whole of the area surrounding the secretariat buildings is fully and brightly lit up each evening ?

(h) If the answer to part (g) be in the affirmative, why cannot the stairs especially the main ones, inside the buildings be sufficiently lit up?

(i) If it is not practicable to light up the stairs, are Government prepared to issue definite instructions to all offices not to allow any of their staff to stay after dark, so that they may not have to grope their way down these stairs ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) A certain number of bulbs had been fused and could not be replaced on account of paucity of bulbs.

(b) Yes ; not only officers lavatories but all lavatories are equipped with electric bulbs.

(d) No.

(e) The reason why some of the lavatories were partially fitted with bulbs for some lime was that bulbs were not available. A consignment of bulbs has recently been received and action has already been taken to replace those which were fused.

(f) The lighting in stair-case was reduced in keeping with the general reduction in lighting which had to be effected owing to the shortage of power. They are partially lit.

(g) I lake it that the Honourable Member is referring to road lighting. This is adequately lighted as it must be owing to the amount of traffic.

(h) The lighting standard will be increased when sufficient power becomes available.

(i) This does not arise as sufficient light is generally provided in the stairs. In cases where there is doubt I will have the lighting improved in so far as the power position permits.

^[f.55] Hardships under the Delhi Rent Control Order

436. Sardar Sant Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact that a representation was submitted by the New Delhi House Owners' and Lessees' Association in December last against the provisions of the Rent Control Order to the Labour Department? If so, has the representation been examined by the Department? If so, what conclusions have been reached ?

(b) Is the Honourable Member aware that the Rent Control Order is causing great hardship ? If so, are Government prepared to replace it by the Punjab Rent Restriction Act, 1941, which is in force in Old Delhi ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. The representation is still under consideration.

(b) No. The latter part of the question does not arise but I would refer the Honourable Member to the reply to part (c) of starred question No. 231.

Sardar Sant Singh : May I ask the Honourable Member if he has seen the recent judgement of the Honourable the Chief Commissioner of Delhi in this connection ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have not.

^[f.56]Licences for Exploration and Scientific Prospecting of Potential Oil Sources

441. Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state whether it is a fact that licences for carrying on exploration work and scientific prospecting in respect of certain potential sources of oil in India, have been granted to British and American Companies ? If so, to which parties have such licences been granted, and what are the terms thereof?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Except in Centrally Administered Areas, the licences referred to are granted by Provincial Governments. The Central Government has no information regarding licences granted by Provincial Governments. No such licences have been granted in Centrally Administered Areas. The second part of the question does not arise.

Mr. K. C. Neogy: In view of the fact that the Department of Geological Survey has recently started Utilisation Branch, do Government think it necessary to keep themselves informed about licences granted by the Provincial Authorities in the case of important minerals ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Certainly.

Mr. K. C. Neogy: Do I take it that according to the information of the Government of India, particularly of the Geological Department, no such licences have been granted by any Provincial Government ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: We have at present no information. If My Honourable friend wants I can collect it for him.

Mr. K. C. Neogy : I understand from a scientific journal that licences have actually been granted to British and American companies for exploration work in connection with minerals.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : If my Honourable friend wants the information I will collect it for him.

Mr. K. C. Neogy: Thank you.

^[f.57]Desirability of Partitioning Compounds in front of Orthodox Quarters in New Delhi in Furtherance of ' Grow More Food ' Campaigns

444. Hajee Chowdhury Muhammad Ismail Khan : With reference to the propaganda made by Government in regard to growing more food, does the Honourable the Labour Member propose to consider the desirability of partitioning the joint compound in front of the A, B and C type of orthodox quarters in New Delhi by hedges to enable the tenants thereof to follow that scheme ? If not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : There has been no general demand from the tenants concerned and if concrete suggestions are put forward by the tenants I am prepared to consider.

^[f.58] Desirability of Allowing Government Servants Living in the New Area to Apply for Quarters in the Old Area of New Delhi

89. Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya : (a) Is the Honourable Member for Labour aware that :

(i) according to Classification Rules the quarters in New Delhi for the ministerial establishment of the Government of India, are divided into two areas (a) Old Area (near the Secretariat) and (b) New Area (Minto Road side) ;

(ii) when a member of the staff goes out of a certain class of quarter and becomes eligible for a higher class, he is required to live in the New Area at least for a year before he is provided with a quarter in the Old Area ;

(iii) the Government of India have recently passed new rules for allotment under which persons holding Lens on quarters have been debarred from applying for any other quarters in the same class;

(iv) under the new rules referred to above, new applicants have straight off become eligible for quarters in the old area whereas persons, who have been living in the New Area for a sufficiently long time and whose names have been on the waiting list, have been deprived of this privilege which they have been enjoying for a long time without any cogent reason;

(v) the Government of India have framed the new rules without consulting the Imperial Secretariat Association, Attached Offices Association and the General Headquarters Association who watch the interests of the ministerial staff;

(vi) persons living in the New Area have to pay at least six annas per day per head on bus or longa hire while coming to, and going back from, office ; and

(vii) members of the staff living in the New Area are not drawing any conveyance allowance ?

(b) If the replies to parts (a) (i) to (vii) above in the affirmative, does he propose to remove this disability, with a view to allowing Government servants living in the New Area (Minto Road Area) to apply for quarters in Old Area ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) (i) and (ii) No. (iii) Yes.

(iv) Change of quarters is not allowed under the new rules except in the case of 'C' combined orthodox type, but as stated in the reply to (a) (i) the quarters are not divided into areas. (v) Yes.

(vi) I am prepared to take this fact from the Honourable Member. (vii) No conveyance allowance is given to the tenants of any quarters. (b) I am prepared to have the matter considered.

^[f.59]Operations of the Utilisation Branch of the Geological Survey of India in Respect of Certain Minerals

92. Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to make a detailed statement indicating the progress of the operations of the Utilisation Branch of the Geological Survey of India in respect of lead, sulphur, wolfram, tin, copper and mineral waters ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: A statement is laid on the table.

Statement

1. Lead.—In 1941-42, a thorough examination was made by the Geological Survey of certain long abandoned lead-zinc ore mines in Rajputana. It appeared that the most promising lead-zinc deposits in India were the mines at Zawar in Udaipur State which were at one time worked but have been abandoned for over 100 years. The mineral rights appertained to the Mewar State who had leased them to a commercial firm. As this firm was not in a position to exploit its lease rapidly (and rapid exploration was necessary if assistance was to be given to the war effort) Government decided to buy out their rights and themselves take a lease from the State. This has been done (fair compensation being paid to the commercial firm) and Government are carrying out their exploration under the terms of a lease granted by the Mewar State. Operations began at the end of May, 1942. They have been planned in two stages—(1) a detailed plane-table survey and deep drilling operations to be followed by (2) the opening up of deposits and the erection of a pilot ore-dressing plant as soon as drilling operations establish the workability of the tode. The old workings are being opened up by 4 Adits or headings. One of these headings has encountered a lode of lead-zinc ore which is of wide extent but which is not at present as a whole as rich as is desired. Another heading has entered some old workings which suggests rich ore. The other two headings have still to meet the tode. The progress of these operations has been satisfactory considering the difficulty in obtaining mine stores and machinery. It is not possible at present to say that any of the four headings must necessarily encounter high grade lead ore. They are merely initial operations and until they are fully conducted it would be premature to speculate as to the size and richness of the deposit.

Under peace-time conditions another two years development at the present rate of progress would be advisable before any decision is taken as to the plant required. The Government of India are, however, anxious to secure the earliest possible production in the interests of the war effort. It is hoped that in about three months' time it will be possible to gauge at least to some extent the character of the ore. Should payable ore have been found at the end of this period, Government will take steps to order and to erect ore-dressing machinery.

2. Sulphur.—On the outbreak of war the Geological Survey of India, as part of its drive for the discovery of minerals required for war purposes, devoted particular attention to sulphur. The most promising occurrence of sulphur in India is in a crater of an extinct volcano at Koh-i-Sultan in Baluchistan. Having carried out the original prospecting and examination of the working of the deposits to the administrative charge of the Supply Department, who established a small mining section under a special officer. The mining operations have however required more technical planning than it was first contemplated and with the formation of the Utilisation Branch of the Geological Survey it was found more convenient that that Branch should take over the mining and this has been done. There are two workable areas at Koh-i-Sultan—(i) Miri—which is higher up, less accessible and has not yet been worked ; and (ii) Batal—which is the deposit at present being worked. Considering quantities of +50 per cent, sulphur ore have been delivered to Indian industry. Proved reserved in the deposit at Batal are now nearing exhaustion in regard to +50 ore though there is still some quantities of lower grade ore and the Utilisation Branch are actively considering opening up the Miri deposits which are expected to be considerably richer than at Batal but there are considerable difficulties in regard to transport. The climate at Koh-i-Sultan, particularly at Miri, is very severe ; extreme cold being experienced during the winter and intense heat and high winds in summer. Labour is consequently difficult to attract. Owing to the inaccessibility difficulties are likely to be experienced in the Transport of ore down from Miri, but all possible steps are being taken to overcome them.

So far only +50 per cent., sulphur ore has been extracted and the Utilisation Branch is now considering the possibility of opening up lower grade ores and washing the ore near Koh-i-Sultan to improve its quality.

The Utilisation Branch is also carrying out operations to prove some old sulphur mines near Sanni in Kalat State. At present boring operations are in progress there.

3. Wolfram.—-The Utilisation Branch has been exploring two small deposits of wolfram-one in the Bankura district of Bengal and the other in the Nagpur District, C. P. A. certain quantity of wolfram has been extracted from the former deposit and supplied to the Supply Department. This deposit is not particularly attractive as the wolfram occurs dispersed in the rock reef and must be extracted therefrom. Quite a steady output has, however, been obtained from several scattered old low grade occurrences and it is now being considered whether machinery should be installed. The deposit in the Central Provinces is even poorer than that in Bengal. Owing, however, to the great value of wolfram for the war this deposit too is being further investigated and it is hoped to extract a certain quantity of wolfram. The principal occurrence of wolfram in India occurs in Jodhpur State and these mines are being worked by the Jodhpur Government. At the request of the State authorities the Utilisation Branch is giving every assistance by means of technical advice where required and in the supply of machinery.

4. Tin.—The Utilisation Branch has concentrated on a possible workable occurrence of tin ore in India in the Hazaribagh District of Bihar. Samples taken from the dump heaps show that tin ore has been worked in this area extensively. Efforts are being made to open up the old mines which appear to have extended deeply but are now filled with water. De-watering operations are now in progress, but have been hampered up to date by lack of or proper pumping equipments. Efforts are being made to secure pumping machinery.

5. Copper.—The Utilisation Branch have investigated the possibility of re-opening an abandoned copper mine in Bihar. These old mines will also require de-watering and extensive underground survey and assays will have to be made before it will be possible to state whether they are workable. One or two other copper occurrences are also being investigated. They appear rather disappointing, but if assays are good, further exploration will be made.

6. Mineral waters.—The Geological Survey has made an exhaustive examination of the mineral springs in India and for the last 18 months experimented with 6 types of ' Indian spring ' Waters. They have been bottled as Red label (acid), White label (neutral), Green label (neutral), Blue label (Gastein), Blue label (Axis-les-Bains) and Yellow label (Vichy) types. The Red, White and Blue (Gastein) waters have been found to be efficacious and steps have been taken to bottle them for trial on a larger scale but arrangements have still to be made with the proprietors. The commercial aspect of these waters, both for Table mineral waters as well as for their valuable medical properties, is also under consideration.

^[f.60] Provision of Taps and for Unfiltered Water in Compounds of Orthodox Quarters in New Delhi

468. Mr. Muhammad Azhar Ali: (a) Is the Honourable the Labour Member aware:

(i) That sometime back his predecessor promised to provide taps for unfiltered water in the compounds or courtyards of the orthodox quarters of the ministerial establishment in New Delhi but later on decided to keep the taps already installed outside the quarters open during the last summer months which concession was withdrawn during the last summer owing to thefts of the connection-locks ;

(ii) that sort of arrangement was most inconvenient and in many cases the water had to be carried to the quarters from great distances by ladies and children in the sun during the summer months ; and (iii) that there are fairly big compounds in front of the quarters which can be usefully used by the tenants for growing vegetables and other things in accordance with the Government propaganda for growing more food ?

(b) Does the Honourable Member propose to consider the desirability of having unfiltered water taps installed in the courtyard of each quarter as in the case of unorthodox quarters ? If not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) (i). Presumably the Honourable Member is referring to the reply given by my predecessor to starred question No. 230 asked by Bhai Parma Nand in this House on the 28th February, 1940. My predecessor did not promise to provide taps for unfiltered water in the compound or courtyards of the orthodox clerks quarters in New Delhi and he stated that he was considering the desirability of doing so. It was decided to keep the hydrants (and not taps) in front of these quarters open during the summer months and to fix some mechanical contrivance on the hydrants, and this arrangement was continued during the last summer season except in cases where the attachment was either damaged or stolen. (ii) I cannot say that the arrangement was most inconvenient. (iii) Yes.

(b) No. In view of the financial stringency and non-availability of the material the question of providing unfiltered water taps in the courtyards of these quarters cannot be considered until normal times. I may mention for the information of the Honourable Member that taps have not been provided in the courtyards of the unorthodox clerks quarters and that the mechanical devices similar to the one fixed on the hydrants in front of the orthodox clerks quarters has been provided on the hydrants in the orthodox quarters.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: May I know from the Honourable Member what is the free allowance of water given to these orthodox quarters ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I would like to have notice of that.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : In view of the fact that the Government is not able to give them unfiltered water now, will the Honourable Member consider the question of increasing the free supply of filtered water to 10,000 gallons.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar; I will consider that.

^[f.61] Deputation on Behalf of the Coal Industry in Bengal and Bihar

Mr. K. C. Neogy: Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether he received on the 25th March last a deputation on behalf of the different organisations representing the coal industry in Bengal and Bihar ? If so, what was the subject matter of the representation made by the deputation, and what action is proposed to be taken by Government thereon ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: A deputation of the organisations representing the coal industry in Bengal and Bihar was received on the 25th March as stated by the Honourable Member.

The subject matter was their anxiety concerning future arrangements to replenish their existing rice stocks. The deputation stated that their Associations saw no certain prospects of maintaining their stocks as the Provincial Governments concerned, whilst promising whatever help they could give, did not feel able to guarantee supplies. The Central Government pointed out that they had asked the organisations some time back for a combined distribution scheme which had not been received. The deputation was informed that the Central Government were importing considerable quantities of rice into Bengal and that if it were found the Provincial Governments were not able to help, then assistance would be given by the Central Government. Since then representatives of the organisations have had an interview with a representative of the Food Department in Calcutta, and the food position of coal mining Labour has been secured for a future period by the provision of certain supplies by the Central Government.

Mr. K. C. Neogy : The Honourable Member referred to replenishing existing stocks of rice. Is the Honourable Member in a position to state approximately the quantity of rice that may be available now to the different collieries ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I stated in my reply, the food position of the coal-mining Labour has been secured for a further period by the provision of certain supplies by the Central Government.

Mr. K. C. Neogy: What I was referring to was the existing rice stocks which the Honourable Member referred to. What is the amount of these existing rice stocks?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The position differed in Bengal and Bihar, and if I remember correctly, what was stated by the deputation was that they had stocks for four or five weeks.

Contents PART III

From 14th September 1942 to 12th April 1946

STATEMENT

Statement

Total Number

Hindus