Dr. Ambedkar As The Member
of Executive Governor General Council
Questions and Answers
______________________________________________
331
[f.1]
Primary Schools for Railway Coal Miners' Children
1471. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the
Honourable the Labour Member please state :
(a)
whether there are any primary schools for children of the miners working in the
Railway-owned coal mines; and, if so, the number of schools and pupils—boys and
girls—attending each of them;
(b)
whether the number of schools and pupils has increased or decreased since June, 1939, and
what the difference now is;
(c)
whether these schools are co-educational, and if there are women teachers on their staff;
(d)
if a midday meal is provided to the pupils at these schools; and, if not, why not;
(e)whether
these schools are under entire or partial management of the Coal Mine Authorities or under
some other total authorities; and
(b) what
steps Government are taking to promote elementary education among miners ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: (a) Yes. I regret I have no detailed information about the number of schools but I shall
obtain it. As regards the number of children of miners attending the schools, it will not
be easy to obtain the information as the schools are open to other children as well.
(b),
(c) and (d). I have no information but I shall obtain it and place it on the table of the
House.
(e)
The schools are under the management of the Hazaribagh Mines Board to which the Railway
Collieries make financial contribution.
(f)
The responsibility for educational facilities is primarily that of the Provincial
Governments.
Shrimati
K. Radha Bai Subbarayan :
Sir, the Honourable Member told us the other day that there is a welfare committee, may I
ask if the Honourable Member will draw their attention to the suggestions that I have made
in this question and also get a record of the children of the miners who attend the
schools ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
There is nothing to prohibit the Welfare Committee from interesting themselves in this and
taking action in the matter.
Shrimati
K. Radha Bai Subbarayan
: I want to know, Sir, if the Government will give instructions to this Committee to give
their attention to these matters ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Yes, it might do. There is nothing to prevent the Committee from doing it.
332
[f.2]
Application of Essential Services Ordinance to Government Employees
1485.
Mr. N. M. Joshi : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :
(a)
whether Essential Services Ordinance applies to all Government employees; and
(b) whether protests have reached the Government
regarding nonapplication of the provisions of sections (5) and (6) of the Essential
Services (Maintenance) Ordinance II of 1941, in regard to obligation of the Crown not to
discontinue the services of the Crown servants without a reasonable cause, and the issue
of rules regulating or empowering a specified authority to regulate their wages and other
conditions of service ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: (a) Yes. (b) No.
Mr.
N. M. Joshi : May I ask why Government have not
taken steps that are necessary to be taken under the Essential Services Act ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
My Honourable friend's question was whether protests were received.
*****
[f.3]Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Item 3 in the ...............
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
(Labour Member) : I am sorry I was not here to listen to the points raised by my
Honourable friend, Mr. Avinashilingam Chettiar. But I should like to tell him that these
quarters are permanent.
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : All of them ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Yes, and the necessity that forced us to undertake this construction.........
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar: I know that. I know my Honourable friend can give
a lecture on that.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I think it is a great advantage that in the midst of so
much money which is being spent on building temporary structures, we have succeeded in
securing at least these quarters as permanent houses which will enable us to house a large
number of clerics' population which will be working in the Secretariat.
333
[f.4]
Erection of Wall Round a Mosque in Karol Bagh,
Delhi
Maulvi
Muhammad Abdul Ghani: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :
(a)
whether he is aware that under the Delhi Muslim Wakfs Act (XIII of 1943), there has been
established a Sunni Majlis-e-Awkaf; if so, whether the said Sunni Majlis-e-Awkaf is the
sole Administrator of all the Wakfs in the Province of Delhi;
(b)
whether he is aware of the existence of an old mosque and a grave yard attached to it in
the Karol Bagh area in New Delhi near the recently constructed Government quarters and
that the Muslims do offer their prayers therein;
(c)
whether it is a fact that the Central Public Works Department intends to enclose the said
mosque by erecting a wall around it and thereby stopping ingress of Muslims in it for
offering their prayers;
(d)
whether his Department has sought the permission of the Sunni Majlis-e-Awkaf to erect a
wall around it;
(e)
whether it is a fact that on the objections of the Mussalmans offering their prayers in
the said mosque the contractor and men of the said Central Public Works Department is of
the Central Public Works Department now ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes. (b) I am not aware of the existence of any old mosque although evidence of an old
and unused grave-yard is visible near the recently constructed Government quarters in
Karol Bagh. But I am aware of the fact that some Muslim residents of this area have
recently built a pucca platform with a thatched roof and an enclosure on this area and say
their prayers in this structure.
(c)
In consultation with the Total Administration, Government have proposed to wall off this
area in order to prevent encroachment on this Government land by either the Muslims or the
Hindus. In deference to the representations received from representatives of the Muslim
community this proposal has been now held in abeyance pending clarification of the legal
issues involved.
(d)
In view of my reply to question (b) this question does not arise. (e) The Honourable
Member is referred to my reply to question (c). (f) The Honourable Member is referred to
my reply to question (c).
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan:
When the Honourable Member says that the Government has decided to built a wall to stop
people going on this Government land, may I ask how does it become Government land ? When
it is a grave yard, how does the Honourable Member say that it is Government land ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
As at present advised the Government regard this to be Government land; but I am obtaining
legal opinion on it.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan : Does the Honourable Member call all the English cemeteries and the
Hindu Cremation ground as belonging to the Government ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
As I said, I am asking for legal opinion.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan : But the Honourable Member has himself said that there is a
grave-yard and at the same time he calls it as Government land ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
That is the position as Government is advised at present.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan :
By whom ?
Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The
Honourable Member has already said that he was taking legal opinion.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan
: By whom is he advised ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: By those who are entitled to advise Government.
Maulvi
Muhammad Abdul Ghani :
May I know whether Government has made an acquisition of that portion of the land to which
the Honourable Member refers as a grave-yard and mosque.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
It is unnecessary to acquire.
334
[f.5]
Public Utility Concerns held by Non-Indian Interests
1591.
Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :
(a)
the number of public utility concerns held by British and other non-Indian interests in
India; and
(b)
whether any attempts were made to acquire these public utility concerns ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) and (b). The information asked for is being collected and will be laid on the table of
the House.
335
[f.6]
Audit of Accounts of Government of India Presses
1596.
Sri K. B. Jinaraja Hegde : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :
(a)
whether the accounts of the Government of India Presses are annually audited by the
Accountant General, Central Revenue, New Delhi;
(b)
whether copies of the audit reports are sent to his Department for perusal and action; and
whether such copies were received in the last two years; if so, the action taken thereon.
(c)
whether it is a fact that serious discrepancies in the accounts of paper were found in the
last two reports and no action was taken on them; if so, what the reasons are; and
(d)
whether Government propose to place a copy of each of the audit reports for the last two
years of the New Delhi Press on the table of the House ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) The accounts of the Presses are audited by the Accountant General, Central Revenue and
other Accountants General who act on his behalf.
(b) Reports are submitted by audit to Heads of
Departments. Reference is made to Government of India only on points of importance or
matters on which settlement cannot be reached.
(c)
The 1942-43 report revealed certain discrepancies which were mostly due to wrong entries
in registers. The matter is still under examination. The 1943-44 report has recently been
received and is under examination by the Controller of Printing and Stationery, India.
(d)
No. Important points are included in the Appropriation Accounts of the Year by the
Accountant General, Central Revenues. These accounts are examined by the Public Accounts
Committee and their report is laid before the Legislative Assembly.
Sri
K. B. Jinaraja Hegde :
May I know with reference to part (d) of the question whether the Honourable Member will
please lay the audit reports on the table of the House ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
No, Sir, It is not necessary. These are included in the Public Accounts Committee reports.
Sri
K. B. Jinaraja Hegde :
May I know whether these audit reports are incorporated in full in the Public Accounts
Committee reports ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
Such pans of it as are necessary for the purposes of the Public Accounts Committee are
incorporated.
336
[f.7]
Central Government Servants not provided with
Quarters
1606.
Sardar Sant Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the
percentage of Central Government servants servicing in Delhi and New Delhi and having a
monthly salary of below Rs. 600 who have not so far been provided with any Government
accommodation ?
(b)
Is it a fact that a Government servant whose monthly salary is below Rs. 600 is not
deprived of his quarter when he becomes out of class until accommodation of a higher type
can be provided to him ?
(c) Will Government please state the number of
Government servants in Delhi and New Delhi who were in possession of Government quarters
but have been deprived of them on technical ground of transfer from one Government office
to another in New Delhi e.g. from Agricultural Institute, Pusa, Government of India Press,
New Delhi, A.G.P. & T. etc., to the Government of India Main Secretariat Departments ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: (a) About 65 per cent. (b) Yes.
(c)
The required information is not readily available and its collection at this stage would
not justify the labour involved, but I would inform the Honourable Member that except in
the case of the staff transferred from Government of India Press, Agricultural Research
Institute and A.G.P. & T's Office, who have got their separate pool of quarters, no
officer is required to vacate his quarter on transfer from one Government office to
another in New Delhi.
337
[f.8]
Plight of Central Government Servants deprived of Quarters on Transfer to another Office
in New Delhi
1607.
Sardar Sant Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact
that in a considerable number of cases where Government servants have been deprived of
their quarters, the persons concerned have a total length of permanent service under the
Central Government in Delhi and New Delhi for a period of fifteen years or more ?
(b)
Are Government aware that under the existing conditions, some of these Government servants
who had to wait in the beginning for a number of years before they got Government
accommodation, will have no chance during their service-life to get Government
accommodation again ?
(c) Is it a fact that distinction between orthodox
and unorthodox quarters has been abolished with a view to enlarge the scope of a
Government servant to get accommodation in Delhi and New Delhi ?
(d)
Do Government propose to consider the cases of Government servants referred to in (a) and
(b) above and grant them relief in the matter of accommodation by taking into account
their length of service under the Central Government in Delhi and New Delhi. If not, why
not?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Arnbedkar:
(a) The Honourable Member's attention is invited to reply to part (c) of starred question
No. 1606.
(b)
Officers mentioned in my reply to the last question may have to wait for their turn in the
general pool, but for how long they may have to wait, I cannot say. (c) Yes.
(d)
The length of service in the general pool is always the deciding factor. Government do not
consider it equitable to alter this rule in favour of any particular groups of Government
servants.
338
[f.9]
Applications for Khas Khas Tatties from Occupants of Government Quarters in Delhi and New
Delhi
131.
Mr. K. C. Neogy: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether he is
aware that formal applications in regard to the supply of khas khas tatties in the
residences occupied by Government servants in Delhi and New Delhi during the ensuing
Summer Season, 1945, were invited by the 20th March, 1945, vide Additional Chief Engineer (Western Zone)
Central Public Works Department, circular memorandum No. WII/3708, dated the 20th
February, 1945 and No. WII/3708, dated the 13th March, 1945 ?
(b)
Is he also aware that the Summer allotment (1945) is not yet out ?
(c) If the reply to (b) above be in the
affirmative, does he propose to extend the date for applying for khas khas tatties in the
case of those Government servants who will be allotted quarters in April, 1945, but have
none at present ? If not, why not ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes. (b) As seasonal allotments have been dispensed with under the latest Rules, this
question does not arise.
(c)
Government servants who have no official quarters now and will be allotted official
quarters in April, will be permitted to apply for khas khas tatties upto the end of April,
although the supply of such tatties will be necessary somewhat delayed.
339
[f.10]
Technical Centres opened by Labour Department
1697. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad: (a) Will the Honourable
the Labour Member please mention the number of Technical Centres opened by the Labour
Department (i) in association with Muslim Institutions, (ii) in association with
non-Muslim Institutions, and (iii) in association with independent Institutions not
connected with any Engineering Institutions ?
(b)
How many of the Institutions under (iii) are under Muslim Administration, and how many
under non-Muslim administration ?
(c)
Does the Honourable Member propose to lay on the table of the House the names of all these
Centres for Technicians mentioned in classes (i), (ii) and (iii) ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) (i) 5, (ii) 74, (iii) If by " independent institutions " are meant "
private institutions ", there are 36.
(b)
Of the 36, 2 are under purely Muslim administration. (c) A statement is laid on the table.
STATEMENT
I.
Technical Training Centres associated with Muslim Institutions A. Engineering:—
1.
Abdullah Fazalbhoy Technical Institute, St. Xavier College, Bombay.
2.
Anglo-Arabic College Technical Institute, Delhi.
3.
Muslim University Engineering College, Aligarh. B.
Non-Engineering:—
4.
Anjuman Industrial School, Madras.
5.
Shia Intermediate College, Lucknow.
II.
Technical Training Centres Association with Non-Muslim Institutions
(Excluding
Centres Associated with Institutions run by Provincial
Governments and States and with Railway Workshops). A. Engineering:—
1.
B. P. Chdy. Technical School, Krishnagar.
2.
College of Engineering and Technotogy, Bengal.
3.
D. J. Industrial School, Rajshahi.
4.
Don Bosco Technical School, Krishnagar.
5.
I. G. N. Co., Ltd., Sonachara Workshop, Narayanganj.
6.
K. K. Technical School, Mymcnsingh.
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : What is the nature of these technical centres?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
They are centres where technical training is given.
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : For what industries ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : For many of the trades.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan : Is Aligarh one of them ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Yes, certainly.
340
[f.11]
Opening of War Technicians Depot or Reception
Centre
1698. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Is the Honourable the
Labour Member contemplating to open War Technicians Depot or Reception Centre ? If so, at
what places ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Government of India propose to have a Reception Depot
in each circle where civilian recruits after being selected for training may be sent for
short periods before being allotted to a training centre. A statement indicating the
reception depots already sanctioned, their capacity and location is placed on the table.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Are there many centres ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member may see the statement and find for
himself. I am placing a statement on the table.
Maulvi
Muhammad Abdul Ghani :
What is the total number of reception centres ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I cannot make a calculation here.
Mr.
President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The Honourable Member had better look at the
table.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : It is not a big list.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: It is a big list. I cannot read the whole thing unless you
Sir, permit me to do so. India is divided into circles Northern Circle, Central Circle,
N.E. Circle, S. E. Circle, Eastern Circle, Western Circle and Southern Circle.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : What are their headquarters ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: The headquarters or centres for training are : Northern
Circle, Lyilpur and Sonepat; Central Circle—Delhi, Akola or Nagpur; N. E.
Circle—Aligarh; S. E.
Circle—Guizarbagh (Palna) and Cuttack; Eastern Circle—Hooghly; Western
Circle—Worli (Bombay) and Hubli; Soulliern Circle— Madras, Bewada, Trivandrum
and Coimbatorc.
341
*[f12]
Developing of U. P. Technical Training Centres into
Polytechnic
1699. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad: (a) Will the Honourable
the Labour Member please state the technical training Centres in U. P. which Government
are contemplating to develop into polytechnic ?
Is
it not a fact that Government have selected two places for developing Technical training
centres into Polytechnic, i.e. Dyal Bagh and Benares University ? Is the Honourable Member
aware of the fact that the Aligarh Muslim University Engineering College has been omitted
from the list of the Centres ?
(b)
Is it not a fact that Aligarh Centre was included in the list on the special request of
the Muslim League Party ? Is it not a fact that one of the Inspectors and Advisers who
deal with the War Technicians' class is a Muslim ? If the answer is in the negative, what
is the number of Muslim Inspectors ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) There is no scheme under consideration of the Labour Department at present for
developing any training centre, either in the United Provinces or anywhere else, into a
polytechnic. The question of selecting-any centre for this purpose does not therefore
arise.
(b)
In view of the reply given to (a) above the fist part of the question under (b) does not
arise. As regards the rest of part (b) none of the Regional Inspectors under the Technical
Training scheme is a Muslim and there are no officers designated as " Advisers
".
342