Dr. Ambedkar As The Member
of Executive Governor General Council
Questions and Answers
______________________________________________
331
[f.1]
Primary Schools for Railway Coal Miners' Children
1471. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the
Honourable the Labour Member please state :
(a)
whether there are any primary schools for children of the miners working in the
Railway-owned coal mines; and, if so, the number of schools and pupils—boys and
girls—attending each of them;
(b)
whether the number of schools and pupils has increased or decreased since June, 1939, and
what the difference now is;
(c)
whether these schools are co-educational, and if there are women teachers on their staff;
(d)
if a midday meal is provided to the pupils at these schools; and, if not, why not;
(e)whether
these schools are under entire or partial management of the Coal Mine Authorities or under
some other total authorities; and
(b) what
steps Government are taking to promote elementary education among miners ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: (a) Yes. I regret I have no detailed information about the number of schools but I shall
obtain it. As regards the number of children of miners attending the schools, it will not
be easy to obtain the information as the schools are open to other children as well.
(b),
(c) and (d). I have no information but I shall obtain it and place it on the table of the
House.
(e)
The schools are under the management of the Hazaribagh Mines Board to which the Railway
Collieries make financial contribution.
(f)
The responsibility for educational facilities is primarily that of the Provincial
Governments.
Shrimati
K. Radha Bai Subbarayan :
Sir, the Honourable Member told us the other day that there is a welfare committee, may I
ask if the Honourable Member will draw their attention to the suggestions that I have made
in this question and also get a record of the children of the miners who attend the
schools ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
There is nothing to prohibit the Welfare Committee from interesting themselves in this and
taking action in the matter.
Shrimati
K. Radha Bai Subbarayan
: I want to know, Sir, if the Government will give instructions to this Committee to give
their attention to these matters ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Yes, it might do. There is nothing to prevent the Committee from doing it.
332
[f.2]
Application of Essential Services Ordinance to Government Employees
1485.
Mr. N. M. Joshi : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :
(a)
whether Essential Services Ordinance applies to all Government employees; and
(b) whether protests have reached the Government
regarding nonapplication of the provisions of sections (5) and (6) of the Essential
Services (Maintenance) Ordinance II of 1941, in regard to obligation of the Crown not to
discontinue the services of the Crown servants without a reasonable cause, and the issue
of rules regulating or empowering a specified authority to regulate their wages and other
conditions of service ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: (a) Yes. (b) No.
Mr.
N. M. Joshi : May I ask why Government have not
taken steps that are necessary to be taken under the Essential Services Act ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
My Honourable friend's question was whether protests were received.
*****
[f.3]Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Item 3 in the ...............
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
(Labour Member) : I am sorry I was not here to listen to the points raised by my
Honourable friend, Mr. Avinashilingam Chettiar. But I should like to tell him that these
quarters are permanent.
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : All of them ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Yes, and the necessity that forced us to undertake this construction.........
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar: I know that. I know my Honourable friend can give
a lecture on that.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I think it is a great advantage that in the midst of so
much money which is being spent on building temporary structures, we have succeeded in
securing at least these quarters as permanent houses which will enable us to house a large
number of clerics' population which will be working in the Secretariat.
333
[f.4]
Erection of Wall Round a Mosque in Karol Bagh,
Delhi
Maulvi
Muhammad Abdul Ghani: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :
(a)
whether he is aware that under the Delhi Muslim Wakfs Act (XIII of 1943), there has been
established a Sunni Majlis-e-Awkaf; if so, whether the said Sunni Majlis-e-Awkaf is the
sole Administrator of all the Wakfs in the Province of Delhi;
(b)
whether he is aware of the existence of an old mosque and a grave yard attached to it in
the Karol Bagh area in New Delhi near the recently constructed Government quarters and
that the Muslims do offer their prayers therein;
(c)
whether it is a fact that the Central Public Works Department intends to enclose the said
mosque by erecting a wall around it and thereby stopping ingress of Muslims in it for
offering their prayers;
(d)
whether his Department has sought the permission of the Sunni Majlis-e-Awkaf to erect a
wall around it;
(e)
whether it is a fact that on the objections of the Mussalmans offering their prayers in
the said mosque the contractor and men of the said Central Public Works Department is of
the Central Public Works Department now ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes. (b) I am not aware of the existence of any old mosque although evidence of an old
and unused grave-yard is visible near the recently constructed Government quarters in
Karol Bagh. But I am aware of the fact that some Muslim residents of this area have
recently built a pucca platform with a thatched roof and an enclosure on this area and say
their prayers in this structure.
(c)
In consultation with the Total Administration, Government have proposed to wall off this
area in order to prevent encroachment on this Government land by either the Muslims or the
Hindus. In deference to the representations received from representatives of the Muslim
community this proposal has been now held in abeyance pending clarification of the legal
issues involved.
(d)
In view of my reply to question (b) this question does not arise. (e) The Honourable
Member is referred to my reply to question (c). (f) The Honourable Member is referred to
my reply to question (c).
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan:
When the Honourable Member says that the Government has decided to built a wall to stop
people going on this Government land, may I ask how does it become Government land ? When
it is a grave yard, how does the Honourable Member say that it is Government land ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
As at present advised the Government regard this to be Government land; but I am obtaining
legal opinion on it.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan : Does the Honourable Member call all the English cemeteries and the
Hindu Cremation ground as belonging to the Government ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
As I said, I am asking for legal opinion.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan : But the Honourable Member has himself said that there is a
grave-yard and at the same time he calls it as Government land ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
That is the position as Government is advised at present.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan :
By whom ?
Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The
Honourable Member has already said that he was taking legal opinion.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan
: By whom is he advised ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: By those who are entitled to advise Government.
Maulvi
Muhammad Abdul Ghani :
May I know whether Government has made an acquisition of that portion of the land to which
the Honourable Member refers as a grave-yard and mosque.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
It is unnecessary to acquire.
334
[f.5]
Public Utility Concerns held by Non-Indian Interests
1591.
Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :
(a)
the number of public utility concerns held by British and other non-Indian interests in
India; and
(b)
whether any attempts were made to acquire these public utility concerns ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) and (b). The information asked for is being collected and will be laid on the table of
the House.
335
[f.6]
Audit of Accounts of Government of India Presses
1596.
Sri K. B. Jinaraja Hegde : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :
(a)
whether the accounts of the Government of India Presses are annually audited by the
Accountant General, Central Revenue, New Delhi;
(b)
whether copies of the audit reports are sent to his Department for perusal and action; and
whether such copies were received in the last two years; if so, the action taken thereon.
(c)
whether it is a fact that serious discrepancies in the accounts of paper were found in the
last two reports and no action was taken on them; if so, what the reasons are; and
(d)
whether Government propose to place a copy of each of the audit reports for the last two
years of the New Delhi Press on the table of the House ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) The accounts of the Presses are audited by the Accountant General, Central Revenue and
other Accountants General who act on his behalf.
(b) Reports are submitted by audit to Heads of
Departments. Reference is made to Government of India only on points of importance or
matters on which settlement cannot be reached.
(c)
The 1942-43 report revealed certain discrepancies which were mostly due to wrong entries
in registers. The matter is still under examination. The 1943-44 report has recently been
received and is under examination by the Controller of Printing and Stationery, India.
(d)
No. Important points are included in the Appropriation Accounts of the Year by the
Accountant General, Central Revenues. These accounts are examined by the Public Accounts
Committee and their report is laid before the Legislative Assembly.
Sri
K. B. Jinaraja Hegde :
May I know with reference to part (d) of the question whether the Honourable Member will
please lay the audit reports on the table of the House ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
No, Sir, It is not necessary. These are included in the Public Accounts Committee reports.
Sri
K. B. Jinaraja Hegde :
May I know whether these audit reports are incorporated in full in the Public Accounts
Committee reports ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
Such pans of it as are necessary for the purposes of the Public Accounts Committee are
incorporated.
336
[f.7]
Central Government Servants not provided with
Quarters
1606.
Sardar Sant Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the
percentage of Central Government servants servicing in Delhi and New Delhi and having a
monthly salary of below Rs. 600 who have not so far been provided with any Government
accommodation ?
(b)
Is it a fact that a Government servant whose monthly salary is below Rs. 600 is not
deprived of his quarter when he becomes out of class until accommodation of a higher type
can be provided to him ?
(c) Will Government please state the number of
Government servants in Delhi and New Delhi who were in possession of Government quarters
but have been deprived of them on technical ground of transfer from one Government office
to another in New Delhi e.g. from Agricultural Institute, Pusa, Government of India Press,
New Delhi, A.G.P. & T. etc., to the Government of India Main Secretariat Departments ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: (a) About 65 per cent. (b) Yes.
(c)
The required information is not readily available and its collection at this stage would
not justify the labour involved, but I would inform the Honourable Member that except in
the case of the staff transferred from Government of India Press, Agricultural Research
Institute and A.G.P. & T's Office, who have got their separate pool of quarters, no
officer is required to vacate his quarter on transfer from one Government office to
another in New Delhi.
337
[f.8]
Plight of Central Government Servants deprived of Quarters on Transfer to another Office
in New Delhi
1607.
Sardar Sant Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact
that in a considerable number of cases where Government servants have been deprived of
their quarters, the persons concerned have a total length of permanent service under the
Central Government in Delhi and New Delhi for a period of fifteen years or more ?
(b)
Are Government aware that under the existing conditions, some of these Government servants
who had to wait in the beginning for a number of years before they got Government
accommodation, will have no chance during their service-life to get Government
accommodation again ?
(c) Is it a fact that distinction between orthodox
and unorthodox quarters has been abolished with a view to enlarge the scope of a
Government servant to get accommodation in Delhi and New Delhi ?
(d)
Do Government propose to consider the cases of Government servants referred to in (a) and
(b) above and grant them relief in the matter of accommodation by taking into account
their length of service under the Central Government in Delhi and New Delhi. If not, why
not?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Arnbedkar:
(a) The Honourable Member's attention is invited to reply to part (c) of starred question
No. 1606.
(b)
Officers mentioned in my reply to the last question may have to wait for their turn in the
general pool, but for how long they may have to wait, I cannot say. (c) Yes.
(d)
The length of service in the general pool is always the deciding factor. Government do not
consider it equitable to alter this rule in favour of any particular groups of Government
servants.
338
[f.9]
Applications for Khas Khas Tatties from Occupants of Government Quarters in Delhi and New
Delhi
131.
Mr. K. C. Neogy: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether he is
aware that formal applications in regard to the supply of khas khas tatties in the
residences occupied by Government servants in Delhi and New Delhi during the ensuing
Summer Season, 1945, were invited by the 20th March, 1945, vide Additional Chief Engineer (Western Zone)
Central Public Works Department, circular memorandum No. WII/3708, dated the 20th
February, 1945 and No. WII/3708, dated the 13th March, 1945 ?
(b)
Is he also aware that the Summer allotment (1945) is not yet out ?
(c) If the reply to (b) above be in the
affirmative, does he propose to extend the date for applying for khas khas tatties in the
case of those Government servants who will be allotted quarters in April, 1945, but have
none at present ? If not, why not ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes. (b) As seasonal allotments have been dispensed with under the latest Rules, this
question does not arise.
(c)
Government servants who have no official quarters now and will be allotted official
quarters in April, will be permitted to apply for khas khas tatties upto the end of April,
although the supply of such tatties will be necessary somewhat delayed.
339
[f.10]
Technical Centres opened by Labour Department
1697. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad: (a) Will the Honourable
the Labour Member please mention the number of Technical Centres opened by the Labour
Department (i) in association with Muslim Institutions, (ii) in association with
non-Muslim Institutions, and (iii) in association with independent Institutions not
connected with any Engineering Institutions ?
(b)
How many of the Institutions under (iii) are under Muslim Administration, and how many
under non-Muslim administration ?
(c)
Does the Honourable Member propose to lay on the table of the House the names of all these
Centres for Technicians mentioned in classes (i), (ii) and (iii) ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) (i) 5, (ii) 74, (iii) If by " independent institutions " are meant "
private institutions ", there are 36.
(b)
Of the 36, 2 are under purely Muslim administration. (c) A statement is laid on the table.
STATEMENT
I.
Technical Training Centres associated with Muslim Institutions A. Engineering:—
1.
Abdullah Fazalbhoy Technical Institute, St. Xavier College, Bombay.
2.
Anglo-Arabic College Technical Institute, Delhi.
3.
Muslim University Engineering College, Aligarh. B.
Non-Engineering:—
4.
Anjuman Industrial School, Madras.
5.
Shia Intermediate College, Lucknow.
II.
Technical Training Centres Association with Non-Muslim Institutions
(Excluding
Centres Associated with Institutions run by Provincial
Governments and States and with Railway Workshops). A. Engineering:—
1.
B. P. Chdy. Technical School, Krishnagar.
2.
College of Engineering and Technotogy, Bengal.
3.
D. J. Industrial School, Rajshahi.
4.
Don Bosco Technical School, Krishnagar.
5.
I. G. N. Co., Ltd., Sonachara Workshop, Narayanganj.
6.
K. K. Technical School, Mymcnsingh.
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : What is the nature of these technical centres?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
They are centres where technical training is given.
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : For what industries ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : For many of the trades.
Sir
Muhammad Yamin Khan : Is Aligarh one of them ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Yes, certainly.
340
[f.11]
Opening of War Technicians Depot or Reception
Centre
1698. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Is the Honourable the
Labour Member contemplating to open War Technicians Depot or Reception Centre ? If so, at
what places ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Government of India propose to have a Reception Depot
in each circle where civilian recruits after being selected for training may be sent for
short periods before being allotted to a training centre. A statement indicating the
reception depots already sanctioned, their capacity and location is placed on the table.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Are there many centres ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member may see the statement and find for
himself. I am placing a statement on the table.
Maulvi
Muhammad Abdul Ghani :
What is the total number of reception centres ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I cannot make a calculation here.
Mr.
President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The Honourable Member had better look at the
table.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : It is not a big list.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: It is a big list. I cannot read the whole thing unless you
Sir, permit me to do so. India is divided into circles Northern Circle, Central Circle,
N.E. Circle, S. E. Circle, Eastern Circle, Western Circle and Southern Circle.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : What are their headquarters ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: The headquarters or centres for training are : Northern
Circle, Lyilpur and Sonepat; Central Circle—Delhi, Akola or Nagpur; N. E.
Circle—Aligarh; S. E.
Circle—Guizarbagh (Palna) and Cuttack; Eastern Circle—Hooghly; Western
Circle—Worli (Bombay) and Hubli; Soulliern Circle— Madras, Bewada, Trivandrum
and Coimbatorc.
341
*[f12]
Developing of U. P. Technical Training Centres into
Polytechnic
1699. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad: (a) Will the Honourable
the Labour Member please state the technical training Centres in U. P. which Government
are contemplating to develop into polytechnic ?
Is
it not a fact that Government have selected two places for developing Technical training
centres into Polytechnic, i.e. Dyal Bagh and Benares University ? Is the Honourable Member
aware of the fact that the Aligarh Muslim University Engineering College has been omitted
from the list of the Centres ?
(b)
Is it not a fact that Aligarh Centre was included in the list on the special request of
the Muslim League Party ? Is it not a fact that one of the Inspectors and Advisers who
deal with the War Technicians' class is a Muslim ? If the answer is in the negative, what
is the number of Muslim Inspectors ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) There is no scheme under consideration of the Labour Department at present for
developing any training centre, either in the United Provinces or anywhere else, into a
polytechnic. The question of selecting-any centre for this purpose does not therefore
arise.
(b)
In view of the reply given to (a) above the fist part of the question under (b) does not
arise. As regards the rest of part (b) none of the Regional Inspectors under the Technical
Training scheme is a Muslim and there are no officers designated as " Advisers
".
342
[f.13]
Starting of Canteens and Cafeteria in Industrial Establishments
1700.
Sri K. B. Jinaraja Hegde : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :
(a)
whether Government is encouraging starting of canteens and cafeteria in all industrial
establishments by the employers where food is made available at cheap rates;
(b)
how many such (i) canteens, and (ii) cafetaria are started in the country in 1944-45;
(c)
whether Government have offered any such benefits to the workers in the Ordinance
Factories in the country;
(d) whether the Honourable Member is aware that the
workers in the Aravankada Factory have demanded such benefits from Government; and
(e)
whether Government propose to offer such benefits to their workers at Aravankadu ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes. (b) No statistics of canteens as distinct from cafeteria are maintained.
Information available shows that towards the close of 1944, there were 315 establishments
for supplying cooked food and the rest provided refreshments. (c) Yes. (d) No.
(e)
Provision already exists at the Factory for the sale of tea and other light refreshments.
The question of providing meals at the Factory will be considered if the demand therefor
becomes appreciable.
Shri
K. B. Jinaraja Hegde :
How many workers should apply for these benefits?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Certainly, if they express a desire it will be considered ?
Sri
K. B. Jinaraja Hegde : What is the number of
workers that should apply ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
So far we have not prescribed any minimum for a demand of this kind.
Prof. N. G.
Ranga : Is it one of the task of their welfare officers to encourage employers to
provide these facilities for their employees ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
We are thinking of that.
343
[f.14]
Increasing of Dearness Allowance and Scales of Pay of Government of India Press Employees
1706. Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : (a) Will the
Honourable the Labour Member please state whether Government are aware :
(i)
that the Unions of the Government of India Presses have formed a Federation of their own ;
(ii) that a statement has been issued by the
Executive Committee of the Government Press Unions Federation, India, narrating the woeful
tale of the hardship of the Press employees with some recommendations for an increase in
Dearness Allowance and the scales of pay; and
(b)
If the answers to (a) are in the affirmative, has any action been taken in the matter
since the issue of the statement ? If not, when does he intend to take action, and in what
way ? If not, why not ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) (i) and (ii) Yes. (b) The matter is under the consideration of Government.
344
[f.15]
Safeguarding of Indian Interests in Mica Mines
1709. Prof. N. G. Ranga: (a) Will the Honourable the
Labour Member please state if his attention has been drawn to an article in the Free Press
Journal of the 16th March, 1945, under the title, ' India Chief Producer of Mica ' in
which it is pointed out that British and American interests are trying to get control of
mica mines in India ?
(b)
If this is true, what precautions are Government taking to safeguard the interests of
those engaged in mica industry at present, and of Indian Joint Stock Companies, who have
acquired mica interests ?
(c)
How many Indian Joint Stock Companies are interested in Mica mines in India ?
(d)
Have any applications been received by the Controller of Capital Issues to register new
companies in respect of mica, and has permission been given ? If so, to which ones ?
(e)
Do Government propose to give an assurance that mica interests in the hands of Indians
will not be threatened by more powerful British or American interests and that they will
not be deprived of the existing rights ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) The article in question is not traceable in the Free Press Journal of the 16th March,
1945.
(b)
The question does not arise.
(c)
According to the annual returns received for the period ending 31st March 1943, the number
is twenty. Later information is not available.
(d)
Applications have been received by the Examiner of Capital Issues, and permission has been
given in some cases. It is not the practice of the Department concerned to disclose the
names of the firms with which they have been dealing.
(e)
Government are alive to the necessity for putting the Indian Mica industry on a sound
footing and they intend to take all possible steps to safeguard the interests of the
Indian mica producer.
Mr.
Manu Subedar: May I know why Government have not attempted to bring the small mica
producers together into a combine under their supervision and guidance and why they are
making the way open for foreign interests ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
We do not propose to take any step until we receive the report of the Committee we have
appointed.
Mr.
Manu Subedar: Will Government permit the small Indian interests to be bought out by these
foreign interests ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
I do not wish to prejudge the issue.
Prof. N. G.
Ranga : Meanwhile what is to happen to this industry ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: There is no need to fear very much on that account.
Mr. Manu Subedar: Will Government give an assurance
to the House ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: As soon as the report is received we shall take all the necessary measures.
345
[f.16]
Bad Condition of Timarpur Quarters, Delhi
1722.
Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : (a) Will the Honourable
the Labour Member please state whether Government quarters in Timarpur were built
temporarily ?
(b) Is he aware that these quarters are now in
worst condition, that no repairs can stand for long, and that there is always a danger of
some of the quarters coming down at any time ?
(c)
Is he aware that the New Delhi Government quarters are cent per cent better than those in
Timarpur ?
(d)
Is he further aware that even in C Type of quarters there is only one water tap, whereas
in the New Delhi quarters there are three to four taps ?
(e)
Is he aware that neither any Executive Engineer nor any higher official has ever gone to
these quarters to see whether each one has been properly repaired or not, and that no one
looks after the convenience of the tenants there ?
(a) Why
do Government charge the same rate of rent from those living in much inferior type of
quarters where there are less facilities as compared to the New Delhi quarters ? Do
Government propose to have the case examined and reduce the rent ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Yes. (b) No, but I am aware that these quarters require frequent repairs. (c) The New
Delhi quarters are much superior to the Timarpur quarters. (d) Yes.
(e)
No. On the other hand my information is that the quarters are regularly inspected by
responsible officials of the Department. There is an Enquiry Office at site for the
tenants to register their complaints.
(0
It is not possible to lay down different rates for recovery of rent from Government
servants for similar type of quarters though the facilities may be somewhat less. The
standard rents of Timarpur quarters are lower compared with the standard rents of similar
quarters in New Delhi and consequently a larger number of occupants of these quarters pay
less than 10 per cent of their salaries. The question of reducing rents does not arise.
Prof. N. G.
Ranga: Have any steps been taken to improve the amenities for the older quarters ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
They have already got amenities.
Prof.
N. G. Ranga :
The Honourable Member stated in his question that water taps and other conveniences do not
exist. Will the amenities be improved.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
I will look into the matter.
346
[f.17]
Difficulty re Accommodation of Simla Staff
permanently Located at New Delhi
1723.
Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : (a) Will the Honourable
the Labour Member please state the number of staff who have come down from Simla to be
located permanently at New Delhi ?
(b)
Is he aware that much inconvenience is being felt by the staff and others for tocating
such staff far away from the main Branches of the Departments or Offices ?
(c)
Does he propose to see that each departmental unit is located in one building ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) The information is not readily available and its collection does not justify the time
and labour involved. (b) Yes.
(c)
Under the present circumstances it is not always possible to accommodate the entire staff
of a particular office in one building. Attempts are however made to adhere to this
principle as far as possible.
347
[f.18]
Government Contribution to Indian Labour Federation
1800.
Mr. Badri Dutt Pande: (a) Will the Honourable
the labour Member please state whether Government has seen a book entitled "The Story
of a Sordid Episode " of Rs. 13,000 grant given by his Department to Mr. M. N. Roy as
Secretary, Indian Federation of Labour, published by one Ganpat Raj ?
(b)
Will Government please lay a statement of accounts showing how the amount was spent ?
(c)
Will Government please state whether this grant of Rs. 13,000 per month has been included
in the current years budget, and, if so, under what head the figure is shown in Demands
for grant ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) I have not seen the book.
(b)
The attention of the Honourable member is drawn to my answer to his supplementary question
to starred question No. 31 by Mr. Lalchand Navalrai on the 2nd November 1944.
(c)
Yes; it is included in Demands for Grants for 1945-46 under the head " Miscellaneous
Expenditure connected with the War-C-5— Expenditure on War Publicity-C. 5
(4)—Labour propaganda ".
Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : The Honourable Member had said
the other day that a statement of the accounts will be placed on the table of the House.
When is he going to do that ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: That does not arise out of this.
Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : If the Honourable Member has
not read that book, may I tell him that there are two books, one against the other. One is
by Mr. Jamnadas Mehta and the other by Mr. Roy. Will the Honourable Member send for these
books and read them and he will then find that there is a contradiction between them ?
Will the Honourable Member then go into this question and find out how this money has been
spent-whether it has been divided half and half between them or what ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I do not propose to spend my money on purchasing them. If
they are sent to me, I will read them.
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : I am sorry I could not catch the answer to part (c) of the
question. Will the Honourable Member kindly repeat it ?
The
Honourable Dr. B.Ambedkar : I said that the grant is in the Demands for Grants.
Mr.
T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Has the grant been enhanced or is it the same amount ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: It is the same amount.
Mr.
Lalchand Navalrai : If I send these books which I have got with me, will the Honourable
Member read them ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
If I find lime, I will.
Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : How did the Honourable Member
say in reply to my supplementary question that the question does not arise of placing a
statement of accounts on the table of the House when it is definitely stated in the
question that a statement of accounts should be so laid showing how the amount was spent ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
I have not been able to follow the question.
Mr.
Badri Dutt Pande: You said just now that the question of laying a statement of the
accounts on the table does not arise, but that is a definite part of the question as
stated in part (b).
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
am sorry. Such information as I have I will lay on the table of the House.
348
[f.19]Authority
for Appointment of Mica Enquiry Committees
1801.
Mr. Ram Narayan Singh : Will the Honourable the
Labour Member please state whether, according to the 7th Schedule of the Provincial
Legislative List, item 27 to the Government of India Act, 1935, Mica Industry is a
provincial subject ? If so, is the formation of the present Mica Enquiry Committee by the
Government of India within their powers under the Act ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I
have nothing further to add to the reply I gave to Mr. Satya Narayan Sinha's short notice
question on the same subject on the 20th of November, 1944.
Mr. Ram Narayan Singh: May I ask whether this is an
encroachment by the Government of India on the rights of the Provincial Governments ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I said, I
have nothing to add to the answer I gave.
349
[f.20]
British-American Mica Mission
1802.
Mr. Ram Narayan Singh: (a) Will the Honourable
the Labour Member please slate at whose instance the present joint British American Mica
Mission was instituted ?
(b)
What is the respective strength of the British and American representatives on the said
Mission ?
(c)
What are the purposes and functions of the Mission ? (d) Is it only a ware measure or is
the Mission to permanently continue even after the war ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) The Joint Mica Mission was set up as a result of discussions between the Government of
India and His Majesty's Government, and through His Majesty's Government with the
Government of the United States of America.
(b)
Three British and three United States of America representatives.
(c)
The Mission under instructions from their principals, are responsible for purchasing,
inspecting, accepting, paying for and despatching all mica required by the United Nations.
(d) It is only a war measure.
Mr. Ram Narayan Singh : May I ask why the Government
of India or the Mica industry have not been represented on the Mission ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
It is unnecessary; it is only a purchasing Mission.
Mr.
N. M. Joshi : May I ask whether it is a fact that the mica is sold in America for a much
higher price than the price paid to the mica owners in India and if there is a
profit—and a large profit—, who takes that profit ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
I must have notice of the question.
350
[f.21]
Candidates from Hindu Backward Classes appointed as Labour Officers, etc.
1803.
Mr. M. Ghiasuddin: Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if any labour
Officer, Labour Inspector, Labour Legal Adviser and Labour Welfare Society Officer has
been appointed from amongst suitable candidates belonging to the Hindu backward classes,
such as Ahirs, Gadariyas, Teli, Tambolies, Kahars, Tohars, Barhais and Kumhars, who are
hereditary occupational and artisan classes and who number sixteen to seventeen crores in
the country ? If not, why not ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: From information readily available, it appears that no officer from such particular
classes has been appointed.
351
[f.22]
Facilities to Candidates from Hindu Backward Classes under Bevin and Other Technical
Schemes
1804.
Mr. M. Ghiasuddin: Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to grant official
facilities to the candidates of the backward classes such as Tohars, Barhais, Gadariyas,
Kumhars and Kolies, who are hereditary occupational and artisan classes in the Bevin
Trainees Scheme and such other technical schemes as are being formulated every now and
then ? If not, why not?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Government have
already taken special steps to help recruitment of backward classes (Scheduled Castes,
etc.) in the Bevin Training Scheme. The National Service Labour Tribunals which make the
selections have been directed to follow the orders in force in the different Provinces
with regard to communal representation and to see that the various communities and classes
are adequately represented. In addition Tribunals have been asked to associate with them a
non-official of influence belonging to the Scheduled Caste and if necessary, a Muslim to
guide them in determining the adequate representation of Scheduled Caste and other
backward class candidates.
352
[f.23]
Hindu Backward Classes Representative on Provincial National Labour Service Tribunal
1805.
Mr. M. Ghiasuddin: Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to stale if Hindu
backward classes have any representative on the Provincial National Labour Service
Tribunal ? If not, why not ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: The Government of India are not aware if there are members of the Hindu Backward Classes
on the National Service Labour Tribunals. Representation on the Tribunals on a communal
basis is neither necessary nor practicable.
353
[f.24]
Summary of Proceedings of the Fifth Meeting of the Standing Labour Committee
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
(Labour Member) : I lay on the table a copy of the Summary # of Proceedings of the fifth
meeting of the Standing Labour Committee held at New Delhi on the 27th June, 1944.
354
[f.25]
Summary of Proceedings of the Sixth Labour Conference
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
(Labour Member) : I lay on the table a copy of the Summary [f.26]
of Proceedings of the Sixth Labour Conference held at New Delhi on the 27th and 28th
October, 1944.
355
[f.27]
Summary of Proceedings of the Sixth Meeting of the
Standing Labour Committee
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
(Labour Member) : I lay on the table a copy of the Summary[f.28]
of Proceedings of the sixth meeting of the Standing Labour Committee at New Delhi on the
17th March, 1945.
Shri
M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar (Madras ceded District and Chitter : Non-Muhammadan Rural) : On
a point of information. May I know why it has taken so long to these papers which were
ready on the 27th of June, 1944 and on the 27th and 28th of October, 1944 on the table of
the House ? Why were they not placed in the last Assembly Session ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot give an answer, but I will look into the matter.
356
[f.29]Indian
Mines (Amendment) Bill
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : Sir, I move for leave to introduce a Bill
further to amend the Indian Mines Act, 1923.
"
That leave be granted to introduce a Bill farther to amend the Indian Mines Act, 1923.
" The motion was adopted.
The
Honourable Dr. B. Ambedkar
Sir, I introduce the Bill.
357
[f.30]
Inadequate Accommodation for Government Servant
24.
Shri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state—
(a)
the number of clerks and assistants in Government Departments who have applied for
quarters but have not yet been allotted accommodation in New Delhi ;
(b) the number of superintendents who have applied for but not given any Government accommodation so far;
(c)
the number of houses or flats requisitioned in New Delhi and Karol Bagh areas for the use
of persons in (a) and (b) above during the war;
(d)
the number of houses and flats in New Delhi and Karol Bagh which have been handed over or
proposed to be handed over to their owners on and from the 1st January, 1946; and
(e)
when he expects those who have applied for accommodation before the 1st January, 1945,
will be allotted Government accommodation ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R, Ambedkar:
(a) and (b). Applicants for quarters are divided into two categories, viz., (i) officers
drawing a pay of less than Rs. 600 and (ii) officers drawing a pay of Rs. 600 or more. All
clerks and Assistants and some Superintendents come under category (i). The number of
applicants under this category, who have not been allotted accommodation is 16,256.
Information regarding the number of clerks and assistants or superintendents, who applied
for but were not allotted quarters, is not readily available.
(c)
The number of flats requisitioned in New Delhi and Karol Bagh areas for officers, drawing
a pay of less than Rs. 600 is 188. (d) 3.
(e)
It is not possible to furnish the information as an applicant's prospects of securing an
allotment of quarter depend on many factors which cannot all be foreseen, such as the dale
of his posting to New Delhi, the amount of his pay, whether he is single, married or with
family, his preference for a particular type of quarter, etc.
358
[f.31]
Surplus Government Buildings in Delhi
25.
Shri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar: Will the Honourable the labour Member please state—
(a)
if any of the barracks and buildings built to the north and south of the Imperial
Secretarial Buildings and in other places in New Delhi for the use of the American,
British and Indian personnel have now become superfluous for such use, if so, how many,
(b) the total number of rooms, etc., in the buildings in (a) above, (c) whether any
offices are now located therein, if not, what is proposed to be done with them;
(d) whether it is proposed to allot such buildings
now or in the near future for (i) office use, and (ii) for residential accommodation with
slight alterations for kitchens and bathrooms where necessary,
(e)
if the answer to (d) above is in the affirmative, whether any have been allotted so far,
if so, how many, and
(f)
in particular what is proposed to be done with the American barracks on the Talkatora
Road, Gurdwara Road, Queensway and Connaught Place ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) and (b). I take it that the Honourable member is referring to temporary buildings
which were till recently occupied by personnel other than that of the Government of India.
A
statement containing the necessary information in respect of such buildings as have been
surrendered to Government or as will, according to the information in the possession of
Government be surrendered within the next three months is laid on the table.
(c)
I confine my answer to this part of the question to the buildings which have actually been
surrendered to Government. The answer is in the affirmative except in the case of the
buildings surrendered only very recently which are also required by Government and are
proposed to be used by them.
(d)
I confine my answer to this part of the question to buildings which will be surrendered
within the next three months. Such buildings are also required by Government and are
proposed to be used for one or the other purposes.
(e)
No, the latter part of the question does not arise. (f) The buildings on Talkatora Road
and Gurdwara Road are being used by Government for office purposes and will continue to be
used so long as these are required by Government. As regards the American buildings on
Cannaught place and Queensway, the method of their disposal is under consideration but
they are likely to be required for Government purposes.
Statement.showing
the buildings surrendered or to be surrendered to Government within the next three months
in New Delhi.
Name
of the building |
Number
of rooms, etc., available therein |
|
L
Block |
74 |
|
M
Block |
107 |
|
Gurwara
Road |
106 |
|
Talkatora
Barracks |
14
barracks |
49,000
Sq. ft. |
|
1
barrack |
2,890
Sq.ft. |
|
Office
rooms (18) |
4,446
Sq. ft. |
|
Recreation
Hall with 4 |
5.000
Sq. ft. |
|
adjoining
rooms and |
|
|
godown. |
|
|
Kitchen
and Dinning |
2,893
Sq. ft. |
|
hall. |
|
Officers
quarters on the Central Vista |
288
rooms |
|
Jodhpur
Mess |
120 |
|
(To
be surrendered in April 1946) |
|
|
Canning
Road Barracks—' B ' Block |
6
barracks (double) |
62,406
Sq. ft. |
(To
be surrendered on 21-2-46) |
1
barrack |
4,598
Sq. ft. |
|
10
office rooms |
4,566
Sq. ft. |
359
[f.32]
Appointment of Mr. Harkness as town Planning
Officer, Delhi and New Delhi
26.
Shri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state—
(a)
if it is a fact that one Mr. Harkness has been appointed as town Planning Officer for
Delhi and New Delhi recently, (b) the terms on which his recruitment has been made, (c) if
the post was advertised in India and applications called for from qualified or capable
Indians for the post, and, if so, whether any applications were received,
(d)
if the appointment was made through the Federal Public Service Commission, and, if not,
why not,
(e)
if he has satisfied himself that no Indian of the necessary ability was available before
Mr. Harkness was given the job, and (f) whether Mr. Harkness has had previous experience
of town planning in a country like India or whether his experience has been confined to
Europe and other countries ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes. (b) The post has been sanctioned for a period of 3 years and is nonpensionable.
It carries a pay of Rs. 2,000 per mensem.
(c) The answer to both parts of the question is in
the affirmative. (d) The post was first advertised by the Federal Public Service
Commission
but no suitable candidate was available in India. (e) Yes. (f) Mr. Harkness's experience
has been confined to Europe and
countries
other than India.
360
[f.33]
Handmade paper for Members of Legislative Assembly
31.
Seth Govind Das : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether he
proposes to procure for future use of and sale to the Members of this House, handmade
paper only which is manufactured as a village industry by institutions organised on
cooperative basis ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : If all the
Members of the House agree to accept and use handmade paper of the kind referred to by the
Honourable Member, such paper will be procured for sale to them whenever it is available
in acceptable qualities.
361
[f.34]
Wells and Additional Accommodation for Members of Legislature
33. Seth Govind Das: (a) Will the Honourable the
Labour Member be pleased to state whether it is a fact that there is a shortage of
bungalows for the residence of members of both the Houses of the Central Legislature ? If
so, what steps Government are taking to construct sufficient number of additional
bungalows so as to provide residence for all the members ?
(b)
Are Government aware that the absence of wells in these totalities cause great hardship to
such orthodox members of the families of M. L. As. who
have objection to the use of tap water ?
(c)
Do Government propose to take steps to construct wells, at suitable distances and places
in these totalities, before the members take up their residences for the next session ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Until the beginning of this Session no shortage was reported to Government and no
complaint of shortages was received by them. A small shortage of bungalow type
accommodation has just been brought to the notice of Government and the matter is now
under their consideration. (b) No.
(c)
Government have not at present any such proposal under consideration.
362
[f.35]Re-Constitution
of Geological Survey of India
36.
Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state what action
has been, or is proposed to be, taken in the matter of (i) reconstitution of the
Geological Survey of India in order to make it " a potent instrument for the
furtherance of Government's mineral policy ", and
(ii)
undertaking legislation for the purpose of establishing control over minerals in terms of
his statement in the Legislative Assembly on the 12th March, 1945, while defining
Government's policy regarding mineral resources of India ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(i) A very large expansion of the Geological Survey has been undertaken by the Central
Government. The superior gazetted staff of the Survey has been increased from its pre-war
strength of 27 to 102 which includes specialists, like Geophysicist, Mining Engineer.
A
copy of the brochure showing the Functions and Organisation of the Geological Survey of
India is available in the Library of the House.
(ii)
Provincial Governments were consulted in the matter and their replies are under
consideration.
363
[f.36]Abolition
of Utilisation Branch of Geological Survey of India
37.
Mr. K. C. Neogy: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to slate the
circumstances that led to the abolition of the Utilisation Branch of the Geological Survey
of India ?
(b)
Is it a fact that the Advisory Committee attached to the said Branch was at one stage,
expected to function as a post-war planning committee with reference to minerals ?
(c)
Which Committee, if any, is now engaged in considering questions relating to post-war
policy about minerals.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) The Utilisation Branch was established with a view to
utilizing undeveloped mineral resources of the country for furtherance of the war effort.
On the termination of the war, the emphasis changed from that of war-time production to
that of a planned policy of minerals development in the country. The development of such
planned policy is an integral function of the Geological Survey of India and is being
pushed forward but the necessity for a separate branch for productive purposes no longer
exists.
(b)
Yes, but the change-over in function has necessitated a change in the personnel of the
Advisory Committee.
(c)
The Government of India have recently formed an expert Advisory Board to advise them on
problems connected with the mineral development of the country. A copy of the Labour
Department Resolution No. M102 (4), dated the 9th January 1946, constituting the committee
is available in the Library of the House.
364
[f.37]
Indian Bevin Boys
40.
Mr. K. C. Neogy : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state how many
Indians were trained in Great Britain under the Bevin Training Scheme ?
(b) How many of them have been employed in factories engaged in war production ?
(c)
How many of the latter have since been discharged ? (d) Is it a fact that a number of
Indian technicians trained under the Bevin Training Scheme have been asked by the
Government of India to accept places other than those in which they have specialised ? If
so, for what reason, and what is the number of such technicians ?
(e)
Is it a fact that, though there was no guarantee of service, assurances were freely given
during the stay of the Indian Bevin Boys in the United Kingdom that their services would
be utilised for the betterment of the industrial status of India? If the answer be
substantially as above, what steps have been, or are proposed to be, taken to ensure the
proper employment of these trainees ?
(f)
Has any representation been received from these trainees indicating their grievances ? If
so, to what effect and with what result ?
(g)
Is it a fact that one of the objects of the Bevin Training Scheme, with reference to
Indian trainees was to give them an appreciation of the Britain methods of co-operation
between the employers and workers, and the value of sound Trade Union principles ? If so,
how is it proposed to utilise in India the training of these technicians in Trade Unionism
?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) 712. A batch of 75 is at present under training.
(b)
414. Another 168 trainees were engaged on essential work in Defence Services in Government
(Central, Provincial and Indian States) undertakings including Railways.
(c)
111 from the factories engaged on war production and 9 from the other undertakings.
(d)
Orders for employment of Bevin trainees on their return from United Kingdom were issued by
the Government of India under the National Service (Technical Personnel) Ordinance. In
most cases Bevin Trainees were placed in employment consistent with the training received
by them in the U. K. In a few cases they could not be engaged on work for which they
specialised and were entrusted with other work which they could perform by virtue of their
general training. Government are making a scrutiny of all such cases and every effort will
be made to find suitable employment.
(e) No such assurances were given, so far as the
Government of India is aware. The prospectus clearly stated that no guarantee of
employment could be given but that every endeavour would be made to place trainees in
suitable posts.
(0
Yes. Their main grievance relates to their prospects of employment in suitable posts in
the post-war period. Every endeavour is being made to find employment for the unemployed
Bevin trainees in Government and private undertakings. Managers of all Employment
Exchanges have been instructed to do their best to help Bevin trainees who register for
employment. The position regarding unemployment among Bevin trainees will be reviewed
periodically and, as far as practicable, suitable action will be taken to remove
legitimate grievances.
(g)
Yes. Facilities for the study of the working of trade unionism in Great Britain were made
available to Bevin trainees. It is hoped that the experience gained will enable Bevin
trainees to take their part in the development of trade unionism on sound lines in India.
365
[f.38]
Proposed Evacuation of Villages in the
Prosecution
of the Damodar Scheme
Mr.
President: May I know when the scheme was started and how far it has proceeded ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
(Labour Member) : I would like to submit that at this stage there is absolutely nothing to
be discussed. Government has no doubt under contemplation putting certain dams on the
Damodar River, which Hows through Bihar and Bengal, but with regard to the specific
questions raised in this adjournment motion, which speaks of forced evacuation, all I have
to say is this—that we are at a very very preliminary stage—we are merely making
an inquiry as to how much land would be submerged by the enclosure of this water, what
would be the area that would be affected, etc., and we are trying to see how many persons
will have to be evacuated, the nature of their holdings and what rights they have. There
is really nothing specific, no action has been taken by government at this stage which
could be the subject matter of discussion, and what I would like to say is this—that
I hope when the government has come to some definite conclusion in this matter I shall be
able to circulate a paper to the House containing the conclusions of government and
members can then raise the matter for discussion in any way they like.
366
[f.39]Electricity
(Supply) Bill
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
(Labour Member): Sir, I move for leave to introduce a bill to provide for the
rationalisation of the production and supply of electricity, and generally for taking
measures conducive to the electrical development of India.
Mr. President : The question is—
"
That leave be granted to introduce a Bill to provide for the rationalisation of the
production and supply of electricity, and generally for taking measures conducive to the
electricity development of India."
The
motion was adopted.
The
Honourable Dr.B. R. Ambedkar :
Sir, I introduce the Bill.
367
[f.40] Purchase
of Temporary Buildings by Government
of India
Sri
R. Venkataslibba Reddiar: Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state:
(a)
If his attention has been drawn to the article under the heading " Stop the Toot
" in the last column of the 1st page of the Hindustan Times, dated the 4th February,
1946,
(b)
if the answer to part (a) is in the affirmative, whether it is a fact that His Majesty's
Government is pressing the Government of India to purchase the two buildings mentioned in
the article, if so, whether the Government of India has taken a decision regarding that,
(c)
the value of the buildings at present, (d) the cost of the buildings to his Majesty's
Government, (e) the price at which these buildings are offered, and (1) if the two
buildings have only to be pulled down and are not fit for any use ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes. (b) No. The Government of India themselves have decided to purchase the buildings
for housing their officers. The terms of purchase are now under consideration.
(c)
No firm figure can be given as the estimates of the present value of the buildings, which
depend on several factors, necessarily differ. (d) Rs. 25,58,000. (e) Rs. 21,31,667.
(f)
The buildings are being occupied by the staff of the Far Eastern Bureau as well as by the
Government of India officers and it cannot be said that they are not fit for any use. They
are however temporary buildings and will be demolished when they are no longer required by
Government.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not know. I suppose it might be estimated between 8
to10 years.
Mr.
Sasanka Sekhar Sanyal : Is it voluntary purchase or forced ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Voluntary. Why forced ? If Government need them they have
to purchase them.
Mr.
Manu Subedar : On what basis is the value fixed ? Is it cost of depreciated value or knock
down value ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
The value is not fixed. The matter is under negotiation.
Sri
M. Ananthasayanam Ayvangar : How many years of life from the war? 8 to 10 years have
already expired?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
They were constructed during the war and I do not know the exact date at the moment.
Sliri
Mohan Lal Sansena : Will the demand for the purchase of these buildings come before the
House ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
Why ? It is an administrative act.
Sri
M.Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : If they were constructed at the beginning of the war and the
life is 8 to 10 years and they are to exist three years more, why does the Honourable
Member think it necessary to spend Rs. 25 lakhs ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I have said the matter is under consideration. No figure
has been fixed.
Mr.
M. Asaf Ali : I do not quite follow the Honourable Member's last but one answer. He said
something about an administrative act which did not require the sanction of this House.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Arnbedkar : I did not say that. I said it was an administrative act
for which the House need not be consulted. The money will be provided for in the Budget.
Mr.
M. Asaf Ali: I want to know if the money is sanctioned.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: It will come up for sanction.
Mr.
M. Asaf Ali: In what form are you bringing it up ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That is a matter for the Finance Member.
Mr.
M. Asaf Ali: I want him to answer it. It is no use the Honourable Member taking up that
high-handed altitude and saying it is an administrative act. He has got to answer us.
Mr.
Sasanka Sekhar Sanyal: Answer. (No answer —Interruptions.)
Mr. President : Order, order. We will now take up the
adjournment motion.
368
[f.41]
Dearth of Accommodation in Delhi and New Delhi
155.
Sir Hassan Suhrawardy : (a) Is the Honourable the Labour Member aware that, in spite of
the cessation of hostilities, there is still a great dearth of accommodation in Delhi and
New Delhi ?
(b)
Is he aware tat, in spite of the promulgation of the New Delhi Rent Control Order and the
Delhi Rent Ordinance, landlords are still harassing tenants and taking advantage of every
possible loophole in the law?
(c) Do
Government propose to consider the desirability of keeping the aforesaid enaetments in
force until normal conditions prevail at least and until this Assembly enacts some law to
regulate the relations between landlords and tenants in the Delhi Province ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Yes. (b) I have not received any complaints recently.
(c) It is the intention of the government of India that rents should continue to be
controlled in New Delhi and Delhi until normal conditions returns.
369
[f.42]
British and Non-Indian Public Utility Concerns
172.
Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the number of
public utility concerns owned by British and other non-Indian interests in India,
indicating the amount of the capital involved in such concerns, and the policy of
Government in the matter of acquiring these concerns on behalf of the State or Municipal
or other statutory bodies in India ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
The question will be answered by the Honourable Member in charge of the Planning and
Development on the 18th February, 1946.
370
[f.43]
Operation of Scheme for Training of Technicians Abroad
173.
Mr. K. C. Neogy: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to lay on the table
of the House a comprehensive statement regarding the operation of the scheme for sending
technicians already employed in Industries abroad for further training or for enlarging
their industrial or professional experience, announced last year, giving particulars
specially as regards the number of technicians who have already proceeded to the different
countries, the different course they are going to take up, the processes of selection of
the said technicians, and the consideration governing such selection ?
(b)
How many applicants, if any, are yet to be sent from among those who have already been
selected, how many if any, more technicians are likely to be sent out likewise in the
current year, and in what subjects are these technicians likely to be trained and in which
countries ?
(c)
What will be the estimated cost to the Central Government involved in the training of
these technicians, and what will be the cost, if any, to the Provincial Governments
concerned ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) A statement is laid on the table of the House.
(b)
152 candidates have yet to be sent amongst those already selected. Particulars of the
training facilities required for each candidate have been sent to the authorities
concerned. Arrangements are made for sending the candidates as soon as intimation is
received that the training facilities required by him will be available. It is not
possible at this stage to say how many more candidates over and above those already
selected will be sent in the current year or the subjects in which they may be trained.
This will depend on the availability of training facilities abroad.
(c)
Under the scheme the training and other expenses of the candidates are borne by the
respective employers i.e., private industry, Central and Provincial Governments and the
Indian States, as the case may be. The scheme also provides for financial assistance from
the Central Government to candidates from private industry where the training is in a new
industry or an industry whose development is considered desirable in the national interest
and the employer is unable to bear the full cost.
The
cost to the Central Government during 1946-47 in respect of candidates selected from
amongst Central Government employees and a few cases from private industry where such
assistance may be given is estimated to be Rs. 1,01,680.
The
estimated cost to the Provincial Governments in respect of candidates selected from
amongst Provincial Government employees during 1946-47 will be about Rs. 3,60,000.
371
Accounts
Re: Gorakhpur Labour in Coal Mines
31.
Mr. K. C. Neogy: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to slate whether all
the expenditure incurred on account of the recruitment and employment of the Gorakhpur
labour in coal mines has been regularly audited and has been found by audit to be entirely
in order ? Up to which date have such accounts been audited ?
(b)
What is the name and designation of the officer in-charge of the Labour Force and what is
the name of his Secretary ? What are the emoluments to which they are respectively
entitled, and what is the extent of the Financial authority of the Officcer-in-charge.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) First pan. Yes, and the accounts have been reported to be in order.
(b)
First part—Mr. H. J. Walsh, Deputy Director, Labour Supply (Coal). There is no
Secretary attached to him.
Second
part—His scale of pay is 1,925—50—2,075. He has been authorised to incur
expenditure at an overall rate not exceeding Rs. 60 per labourer per month, to cover the
pay of labourers, pay of clerical, inferior and medical staff, cost of rations, and
expenditure on T. A. and contingencies. In all cases expenditure incurred must be in
accordance with scales approved by Government.
372
[f.44] Expenditure on Gorakhpur Labour in Coal Mines
32.
Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable the
Labour Member be pleased to state:
(a)
the amount so far spent on the Gorakhpur labour employed in coal mines,
(b)
the amount realised so far from the owners of mines who employed the Gorakhpur labour,
(c)
the number of members of the Gorakhpur labour force employed in (i) Railway-owned
collieries and (ii) collieries owned by public companies and individuals, and
(d)
the names of those mines where the Gorakhpur labour has been employed.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Rs. 1,91,05,386 upto the end of January 1946.
(b)
Rs. 22,52,311 actually recovered upto the end of December 1945. Rs. 29,48,302 are still
outstanding for the period upto the end of December and estimated amount to be billed for
January 1946 is Rs. 16 lakhs. (c) Number employed in— (i) Railway Collieries 7 per
cent,
(ii)
Collieries owned by Public companies 83 per cent, and (iii) Collieries owned by
individuals 10 per cent. Total labour force as on 19th January 1946—17,391. Greatest
number employed in any one month—30,600. (d) A statement is placed on the table.
STATEMENT
List
of Mines Surface
(1)
Madhuband |
(21)
Pure Tasra |
(41)
Isabella |
(2)
Diamone Tisra |
(22)
New Tasra |
(42)
Shampur |
(3)
Model Jharia |
(23)
Central Bhowra |
(43)
Pure Laikdih |
(4)
A. G. Tisra |
(24)
Bhowra |
(44)
Sanctoria |
(5)
Lower Upper Jharia |
(25) Mohulboni |
(45)
Chapui Khas |
(6)
Indian Jharia |
(26)
East Ekra |
(46)
Khas Jamchari |
(7)
Bagdigi Kujama |
(27)
Busserya |
(47)
Jole Dhemo |
(8)
K. P.'s Dobari |
(28)
North Ekra |
(48)
Sirka |
(9)
Bhalgora |
(29)
Kankanee |
(49)
Religarah |
(10)
Ghanuyadih |
(30)
Sendra Bansjora |
(50)
Junkunda |
(11)
Bagechi's Dobari |
(31)
Ekra Khas |
(51)
Jambad |
(12)
Pandalberra |
(32)
Ekra Khas No. 12 quarry |
(52)
Dhansar |
(13)
Khas Jharia Dobari |
(33)
Mudidita |
(53)
Bright Kusunda |
(14)
South Tisra |
(34)
Tclulmari |
(54)
North Bhuggatdih |
(15)
East Bararee |
(35)
Tata's Sijua |
(55)
Godhur |
(16)
Pure Joyrampur |
(36)
Angarpathra |
(56)
Pure Kustorc |
(17)
North Bararee |
(37)
Jharia Khas Angarpathra |
(57)
Alkusa Nayadee |
(18)
G. P.C's. Jinagora |
(38)
Koiludih |
(58)
Jairandih |
(19)
Basudev ' A ' Plot Colliery |
(39)
Agardih |
(59)
Swang |
(20)
Palhardih Sudamdih |
(40)
North Damuda |
(60)
Parhelia |
Underground
(1)
Parhelia
(2)
Sodepur
(3)
Sectalpur
(4)
Banksimullah 11 and 12 pits.
(5)
Banksimullah 7 and 8 pits
(6)
Damra
(7)
Adjai II Colliary
(8)
Shechpur
(9)
Chapui Khas
(10)
S. E. Barboni
(11)
Digwadih
(12)
Jitpur
(13)
Pure Joyrampur
(14)
Bhatdce
(15)
Gaslitand
(16)
Standard
(17)
Ekra Khas
(18)
Swang
(19)
Jairandih
(20)
Dhemo Main
(21) Model Jharia.
373
[f.45]
Extension in Service to C.P.W.D. Officers
44.
Shri Sri Prakasa : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:
(a)
the number of persons, who have retired from, but have been re-employed in the services of
the Central Public Works Department as Superintending, Executive and Assistant Engineers,
respectively, since 1939;
(b)
the number of those persons who have been given extensions to their original terms
together with the instalments of each term of extension;
(c)
if it is a fact that the Finance Department of the Central Government, has expressed
itself against the grant of extensions to the original term ; if so, the reasons for any
action in this behalf against the instructions of the Finance Department;
(d)
if such extensions interfere with the recruitment of new hands and the advancement of
young officers ; if so, whether any provision is made to compensate those whose prospects
are blocked; and (e) if Government propose to lake any action in the matter of the
termination of such extensions and bettering the prospects of younger officers ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Three. (b) Since 1939, extension of service under Fundamental Rule 56 was granted in
three cases, the periods of extension being 6 months, 3 days and 1 month respectively.
(b) The
answer to the first part of the question is in the negative ; the second part does not
arise. (d) and (e) No.
374
[f.46]
Instrument for the Amendment of the Constitution of
the International Labour Organisation
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
(Labour Member): Sir, I lay on the table a copy of the Instrument for the amendment of the
constitution of the International Labour Organisation adopted by the Conference at its
twenty-seventh session at Paris on the 5th November 1945 together with a statement of the
action proposed to be taken thereon.
375
[f.47]
Indian Trade Unions (Amendment) Bill
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
(Labour Member): Sir, I move for leave to introduce A Bill further to amend the Indian
Trade Unions Act, 1926.
Mr.
President: The question is :
"
That leave be granted to introduce a Bill further to amend the Indian Trade Union Act,
1926". The motion was adopted.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Sir, I introduce the Bill.
376
[f.48]
Stopping of Women Working in Coal Mines
406.
Prof. N. G. Ranga : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state: (a) When
Government propose to stop women working in Coal Mines now that the war is over; and
(b)
Whether they have any schemes ready to provide these women who have been brought away from
their villages any alternative employment or to provide them free return passages and to
free them also from any debts that they may have incurred while at work in the mines in
the hope of repaying them through their savings at the mines ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Government have no intention of entirely prohibiting the employment of women in Coal
Mines. Their employment underground has, however, been prohibited from the 1st February,
1946.
(b)
The Welfare Fund of the Central Government has decided to open vegetable farms in the
coalfields and the various Mining Associations of employers and the Provincial Governments
of Bengal and Bihar were asked to do everything possible to provide at once alternative
employment for women released from underground work. Majority of these women have already
been provided with surface work in the coal fields.
377
[f.49]
Recommendations of Indian Labour Conference
467. Prof. N.
G. Ranga : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state:
(a)
the recommendations made by the Indian Labour Conference that met in November 1945 ;
(b) the conclusions or decisions reached by
government thereon ; and
(c)
what steps the Government of India propose to take to implement them?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) None. (b) and (c). Do not arise.
378
[f.50]
Government's House Building Programme for Big Cities
469.
Mr. Manu Subedar : (a) Has the attention of the Honourable the Labour Member been drawn to
the editorial remarks of the Statesman of the 23rd January, 1946, that " Yet it must
be remembered that almost no dwelling has been built in any Indian town during the last
six years, " and is he in a position to contradict this statement ?
(b)
What steps have Government taken to encourage building in congested cities like Bombay and
Calcutta ?
(c)
Are the controls operating still to prevent structures going up, or are they going out of
their way to smoothen out difficulties of builders ?
(d)
Have the Government of India received from, or sent to, Provincial Governments any
concrete plan in order to bring into existence increased number of buildings in India ?
(e)
Are Government aware that the building trade is the most promising one for the absorption
of those who may be retrenched from Government service ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: (a) Yes. As we have no information regarding the number of buildings constructed during
the last six years by private persons, it is impossible either to support or to contradict
the statement as it is worded; but I should like to point out that the controls for the
use of building materials were not imposed till about the latter half of 1941.
(b)
Presumably the Honourable Member has in mind private building. The Government of India
have recently taken some steps of a general nature to encourage private building all over
India and not only particularly in Bombay and Calcutta.
They
have withdrawn the instructions which they issued to Provincial Governments regarding the
exercise of control over building construction. They have advised Provincial Governments
generally to encourage private building by all means in their power. They have issued
specific instructions about the release of bricks and increased quantities of other
building materials like cement, steel, timber, etc. which are under the control of the
Government of India, have been made available to private builders.
Government
of India have further decided to convene a meeting in Delhi in the first week of March
1946, of representatives of the building trade in order to discuss with them the factors
that are still impending the progress of private building in this country.
(c)
The Government of India believe that the relaxations are going to make it easier for
builders to put up structures in future.
(d)
The Government of India have addressed provinces in regard to a short term scheme for the
encouragement of the construction of housing for industrial labour and those other workers
in urban areas who are unable to pay an economic rent. The scheme involves a subsidy from
the Centre provided provinces make an equivalent subsidy and will be referred to by the
finance Member in his Budget speech.
379
[f.51]
Government's Policy re : Residential use of
Wartime Temporary Structures
470.
Mr. Manu Subedar: (a) Is the Honourable the Labour Member aware of the special measures
being taken in the United Kingdom to increase activity in house building ? If so, what are
those measure ?
(b)
Do Government propose to indicate their policy with regard to the following suggestion
made by the Statesman of the 23rd January, 1946.
"
The Government would be, therefore, well advised to consider if until the law of supply
and demand has reasserted itself, residential use is possible of the temporary structures
put up during the war "?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Yes. These measures have been fully explained in the British Ministry of Information
pamphlet No. R. 520, a copy of which will be found in the Library of the House.
(b)
The suggestion made by the Statesman of the 23rd January, 1946, was in respect of the
temporary buildings constructed in Calcutta and I take it that the Honourable Member wants
to know the policy of Government in respect of those buildings. I am concerned only with
the buildings constructed for Central Government Civil Offices which will no doubt be
retained for use until they have become surplus to our requirements.
380
[f.52]
Working Hours of Factory Workers in India
481.
Mr. Vadilal Lallubhai: Will the Honourable the
Labour Member kindly state:
(a)
the actual daily working hours of factory workers in India according to different
industries including collieries and plantations ;
(b)
the total number of factories coming under the purview of the Indian factories Act, 1934;
(c)
how many of them are working one shift, how many of them two shifts and how many of them
three shifts; and
(d)
the working hours in each shift ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Two
statements showing the daily working hours in industries and plantations are placed on the
table of the House. No detailed information about the actual working hours in collieries
is available.
(b)
Total number of factories under the Factories Act was 14,922 in 1944, the last year for
which figures are available.
(c) and (d). No information available.
Statement showing hours of work per day
in factories
1.
Cotton |
7
1/2,—10 |
2.
Jute |
9—12 |
3.
Silk |
7
1/2,—9 |
4.
Woolen |
9—10 |
5.
Engineering (including railway workshops) |
7
1/2—12 for shift workers (in some cases night shift workers work for 7 hours). |
6.
Matches |
8
1/2,—10 |
7.
Potteries |
8
for shift workers |
8.
Printing Presses |
7
1/2—8 1/2,. |
9.
Glass |
7
1/2—9 for shift workers.10 for general workers. |
10.
Chemical and Pharmaceutical works |
7—10. |
11.
Sugar |
8
for Manufacturing section. 8—9 for Engineering section. |
12.
Cotton ginning and bailing |
9—10. |
13.
Rice Mills |
7—10. |
14.
Cement |
7
1/2—8 for shift workers. 8—9 for general workers. |
15.
Paper |
7—8
in continuous process shifts |
16. Mica Factories
|
9. |
17.
Shellac Manufacture |
8—10. |
18.
Bidi, Cigar and Cigarettes |
11—12
for bidi and cigar. 8—9 for cigarettes |
19.
Carpet Weaving |
9—10. |
20.
Tanneries and Leather goods Manufacture |
U.
P. Madras—8 1/2 |
|
9
Day shift. 8—9 Night shift. |
21.
Coir Malling |
9
for men. 6 for women. 5 for children. |
Statement
showing daily hours of work in Plantations.
Assam and Bengal—
Tea
Gardens— |
|
Hazaria
basis (normal working time) Ticca basis (overtime)
Pluckers
Kangra
Valley Dehra
Dun Almora Rubber
Estates |
5-6 3-4 10-11 8-9 8 6 8-9 5-7 |
381
[f.53]
Utilisation of Temporary Building in New Delhi
495.
Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:
(a)
if all the temporary buildings, built for the War Department and other requirements
including the returned American buildings on Queensway and other places are going to be
utilised solely for office accommodation;
(b)
if he will consider the desirability of using at least some of these buildings for housing
the government of India personnel, single persons or others, after making slight
modifications in those buildings for residential purposes, and thus relieving the present
housing shortage in Delhi; and
(c)
Whether, if Government is not prepared to undergo the necessary expense, he will let these
buildings out on contract with the stipulation that they should be let out to the
Government servants in the first instance ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) No. (b) Yes—if and when any temporary buildings
constructed for office purposes are no longer required as offices—and the sites on
which they are constructed are not required for other purposes.
(c)
This will be considered, but it is likely that Government will require the buildings for
their own staff and in such case be likely to keep them under Government control.
382
[f.54]
Governments Policy re : Mica Trade
499.
Babli Ram Narayan Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:
(a)
the policy and object of Government in regulating the Mica business and trade;
(b) the probable date by which the report of the Mica Enquiry Committee is to be printed and published; and
(c)
the length of time to be taken by Government in considering the desirability of altogether
removing or at least modifying the ban on the sale of Crude and Bima Mica under the Mica
Control Order ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) The Government of India wish to improve the working conditions in the industry and to
organise it on sound commercial lines so that Indian mica gets a fair price in the market.
(b)
The report is under print and will be published as soon as printed copies are available.
(c)
It is not possible to fix any date by which Government will take decisions on the
recommendations of the Mica Enquiry Committee. Every endeavour will be made to do it as
quickly as possible.
383
[f.55]
Unemployment Due to Mica Control Order
500.
Babu Ram Narayan Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether
Government are aware that several lakhs of people in the Hazaribagh District have been
thrown out of employment as a result of the introduction of the Mica Control Order ?
(b)
Are Government aware that several lakhs of people of the Hazaribagh District have Mica
Business as their only means of livelihood ? If so, do Government propose to regulate the
Mica business and the Mica Trade so as to safeguard their interests ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) The Government of India have no information that the introduction of the Mica Control
Order has resulted the unemployment of several lakhs of people in the Hazaribaah District.
(b) Government are aware that a large number of
people are engaged in the Mica business and in any scheme of improvement of the industry
Government hope that their interests will not be ignored.
384
[f.56]
Superintending Engineers in Headquarters
599.
Mr. Muhammad Rahmat-Ullah : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a
fact that Rai Sahib C. P. Malik is given officiating chances for the post of
Superintending Engineers in the Headquarters ?
(b)
Is it not a fact that there are a number of Muslim Executive Engineers senior to him but
have not been given a single chance to officiate ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) No. Rai Sahib C. P. Malik has been appointed temporarily to carry on only the current
duties of the post of superintending Engineer, Second Circle, Delhi, purely as a measure
of administrative Convenience.
(b)
Yes. But they have not yet become due for promotion to the grade of Superintending
Engineer.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad:
In view of the fact that out of 13 Superintending Engineers only one is a Muslim, why was
not a Muslim appointed for this particular post?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
If the Honourable Member will refer to my reply, he will see that the appointment is not
of an officiating character—he is merely asked to carry on the duties.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad :
Without being called a Superintending Engineer and without any remuneration ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
Yes.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad:
This is a third method of avoiding the appointment of Muslims, in addition to the two I
suggested yesterday, efficiency and seniority—you do not call a post by the name
which is given to it—you simply ask a man to carry on the duties ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
My Honourable friend is free to draw any inference he likes.
Maulana
Zafar Ali Khan :
Does the Honourable Member know that there is a feeling abroad that in the matter of
appointment of Muslims the Government always meets out step motherly treatment to the
Muslims ?
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: In reply to part (a) the Honourable Member said " as a measure of
administrative convenience ". Is it the convenience of the Honourable Member to make
it a convenience to avoid appointments of Muslims ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I think it is so simple an expression that everybody ought
to understand it.
Mr.
President : Order, order—next question.
385
[f.57]
Muslim Gazetted Officers in Labour Department
Secretariat
600.
Mr. Muhammad Rahmat Ullah: Will the Honourable the Labour Member kindly slate the
proportion of Muslim Gazetted Officers in the Labour Department Secretariat ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
There are 49 Secretariat Gazetted Officers in the Labour Department, of whom 9 are
Muslims.
Mr.
Ahmad E. H. Jaffer: Does it not mean that the proportion of Muslims is not maintained,
according to the 25 per cent ratio ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I
do not know that that rule applies.
Mr.
Ahmed
E. H. Jaffer : 9 out of 49—is it fair to
the Muslim community that they should have this low percentage ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
understand that is not a matter governed by the communal representation ratio.
386
[f.58]
Muslim Administrative Officers in Central P.W.D.
601.
Mr. Muhammad Rahmat-Ullah: (a) Has the attention of the Honourable the Labour Member been
drawn to the article published in the Dawn of the 26th January, 1946, regarding the
appointment of a Muslim administrative Officer in the Central P.W.D.?
(b)
Are the facts stated therein regarding his Department correct ?
(c)
Is it not a fact that the three Assistants of the Administrative Officer as well as the
Financial Adviser are all Hindus ?
(d)
Is it not a fact that the Honourable Member is contemplating to appoint a non-Muslim
Administrative Officer ? If so, why should the Mussalmans be excluded from this branch of
the Central P.W.D. ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes. (b) No. (c) Yes.
(d)
The question of filling the post of Administrative Officer in the Central Public Works
Department is still under consideration.
Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad: How long will it be under
consideration, because his attention has been drawn several times ? Will he make the
appointment after the Assembly session is over ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
He will be appointed in due course.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad :
Why don't you call a spade a spade ? Why do you not call this a Hindu Labour Department,
or rather a Scheduled Caste Department ?
(No
answer was given)
387
[f.59]
Trade Unions in India
54.
Mr. Vadilal Lallubhai : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state the number
of trade unions in India and the total membership thereof since 1939 up to date year by
year totally and as between different provinces ?
(b)
What are their total funds as between provinces and how much of the same comes by
subscriptions and how much by donations since 1939 up to date year by year?
(c)
How many of the total members as between provinces did not pay their subscriptions and
still continue to be the members from 1939 upto date year by year?
(d)
What has been the proportion of outsiders in the office bearers of trade unions ever since
1939 onwards year by year ? Is it a fact that this proportion is recently on a decline ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: (a) A statement showing the number of registered trade unions, the number of unions that
submitted returns and the membership of the latter, during the years 1939-44, is placed on
the Table. Statistics for 1944-45 are not yet available.
(b)
A statement showing the income, expenditure, opening and closing balances of trade unions
during 1939-44 is placed on the Table. Government has no information on the second part of
the question. (c) and (d) The information is not available.
388
[f.60]
Industrial Workers in India
55. Mr. Vadilal Lallubhai: Will the Honourable Member
for Labour please state: (a) What is the total number of industrial workers in India and
their distribution in individual industries including collieries and plantations since
1939 upto date year by year.
(b)
What are the monthly earnings of the factory workers in India in different industries
since 1939 up to date, year by year, exclusive of dearness allowance and bonus ?
(c)
What are the figures of dearness allowance and bonus paid to industrial workers in India
since 1939 up to date, year by year, according to (i) different industries and (ii)
different industrial centres ?
(d)
Will he please illustrate the effect if any, of war time increase in earnings of
industrial workers on the total membership of trade unions and their monetary funds either
way ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) A statement is placed on the table. Statistics for 1945 are not yet available.
(b)
A statement showing the figures of monthly average earnings of factory workers during
1939, 1940, 1941 and 1943 is placed on the table. These are inclusive of dearness
allowances paid in cash, figures exclusive of these not being available. The figures are
only approximate as they are compiled from statistics of total payments made and do not
allow for factors like number of working days in the year, number of working hours etc.
Figures
of 1942 are not furnished as it is not clear which of the figures available are inclusive
of dearness allowances and which are not.
(c)
Full information is not available and Government do not consider that the time needed for
collecting and tabulating this will be commensurate with the result.
(c) Figures
of average earnings of factory workers have been furnished in connection with part (a) of
this Question. Statements showing the membership and general funds of trade unions are
placed on the table. Government are not in a position to say whether the increase in
membership and in the income is attributable to increased wages or to other causes.
389
[f.61]
Muslim Administrative Officer in Central Public Works Department
715.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Will the Honourable
the Labour Member please state:
(a)
the number of posts of Assistant Administrative Officer in the Central Public Works
Department, (b) how many of these posts are occupied by Muslims, and (c) if the reply to
(b) is in the negative, what steps he has taken to fill the vacant post of Administrative
Officer by a suitable Muslim ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Three. (b) None.
(c)
The inference implicit in this question does not necessarily follow from (a) and (b)
because the Central Public Works Department cadre is and must be treated as one. The
subject is however, now under consideration.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Since the reply to (b) is none, may I ask the Honourable Member why a
Muslim should not be appointed to the post of Administrative Officer?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
I did not quite follow.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Since there are no Muslim
Assistant Administrative Officers, may I ask the Honourable Member why should not the post
of Administrative Officer be filled by a Muhammadan ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
It is a matter for consideration. I cannot give a guarantee that the post will be reserved
for a particular community.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Have applications been received for this post ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Applications will not be called for.
Maulana
Zafar Ali Khan:
Has it been advertised ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
Not necessarily.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer :
Why will not a Muslim be appointed.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I
said that I cannot give an assurance. Besides, the Government of India cannot accept the
principle that any community has a vested right in any particular post.
Mr.
Ahmad E. H. Jaffer: Particularly in view of the fact that the Honourable Member's
Department is the worst in the Government of India......
Mr.
President : Order, order. The Honourable Member will please put the question.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : In view of the fact that the Labour Department is not sufficiently
representative of Muslims, may I ask the Honourable Member to consider the appointment of
a Muslim to the post?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I deny the assumption of the Honourable Member.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: May I............
Mr.
President: I believe there is one misunderstanding under which the Honourable Member is
putting his questions. Will he resume his scat ? What the Honourable Member of Government
said was that he makes a distinction between a particular post and the quota in the
departmental posts. Am I right ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Yes, Sir.
Mr.
President : He said he cannot assure a particular post being filled by a particular
community. That is different from the quota.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : My submission is that in view of the fact that his Department has not
the required quota of Muslim of 25 per cent., will he consider the question of appointing
Muslims up to the minimum quota ?
Mr.
President: Yes, that is proper.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
do not accept the principle that that is the only method.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Does the Honourable Member deny that his Department has in the
services the 25 per cent. quota of Muslims ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
deny it.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: With what result ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I
cannot help the result, if there are not sufficient Muslim candidates. That is not my
fault.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : May I tell the Honourable
Member that this is nothing but a lame excuse on the part of the Honourable Member to say
that there are not ' sufficient Muslim candidates ' when they are really available ?
Mr. President: Order, order. That will be a
criticism. The Honourable Member may put his question.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : May I tell the Honourable Member that sufficient Muslims are
forthcoming but their claims are overlooked intentionally.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
have nothing to add to what I have said.
390
[f.62]
Communal Representation in Labour Department
718.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : (a) Will the
Honourable the Labour Member please state the exact number of joint Secretaries, Deputy
Secretaries, Assistant Secretaries, Superintendents, Assistants, Clerks, etc., in the
Establishment Branch of the Department of Labour (Main Secretariat) ?
(b)
How many Muslims and Non-Muslims are there in each grade ? (c) If the reply to (b)
regarding the Muslims is in the negative, what are the reasons therefor?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) and (b) A statement giving the information is placed on the table.
(
c ) Does not arise.
|
Total |
Muslim |
Non-Muslim |
Joint
Secretaries
|
3 |
1 |
2 |
Deputy
Secretaries
|
4 |
1 |
3 |
Assistant
Secretaries and Under Secretaries |
13 |
2 |
11
(including 1 European, 1 Anglo-Indian and 1 Scheduled caste) |
Superintendents |
21 |
6 |
15
( including 1 Sikh and 1 Indian Christian |
Assistants
in Establishment Branch
|
9 |
2 |
7 |
Clerks
in Establishment Branch
|
9 |
--- |
9
( Including 1 Scheduled Caste). |
Mr. Ahmed E.
H. Jaffer: Sir, I did not ask for a statement to be laid on the table of the House,
but I want the number to be stated on the floor of the House, as I want to ask
supplementary questions.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: May I, Sir, give the figures ?
Mr.
E. H. Jaffer: There are no figures to give.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Yes, there are. My learned friend need not assume a threatening attitude.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : I am only reciprocating the threatening attitude of the Honourable
Member himself.
Mr.
President : If the list is not too big the Honourable Member may read.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
|
Total |
Muslim |
Joint
Secretaries
|
3 |
1 |
Deputy
Secretaries
|
4 |
1 |
Assistant
Secretaries and Under Secretaries |
13 |
2 |
Superintendents |
21 |
6 |
Assistants
in Establishment Branch
|
9 |
2 |
Clerks
in Establishment Branch
|
9 |
--- |
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Do these figures include Muslim representation in the Resettlement and
Employment Directorate ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
must have notice of that question.
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : I asked for the figures of
the Labour Department of the Main Secretariat. Cannot the Honourable Member say ' Yes ' or
' No ', whether these figures include the figures of Muslim representation in the
Resettlement and Employment Directorate or not?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
must have notice of that question.
Haji
Abdus Sattar Haji Ishaq Seth :
Will the Honourable Member kindly tell us what Department in answer to the question in the
establishment branch of the Department.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is the Main Secretariat. As I said I want notice in
order to be accurate in my information.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Is the Honourable Member aware that the Resettlement and Employment
Directorate is quite separate from the Main Secretariat ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Of course I am
aware.
Mr.
Manu Subedar : Why is this large army of Joint Secretaries, Deputy Secretaries, Assistant
and Under Secretaries necessary for the Labour Department and may I know whether my
Honourable friend would not satisfy my Muslim friends by reducing some of the other
communities in order to restore the Muslim proportion which they want ?
The
Honourable Dr. B, R. Ambedkar : I
do not want to express any opinion on the Honourable Member's question.
Prof.
N. G. Ranga:
Muslim is the whole Department.
Shri
Sri Prakas :
May I submit in all humility that the Government may lay on the table before the beginning
of every session a full list of all the various communities in the various departments, so
that the necessity for most of these questions may be obviated and temper kept under
control ?
Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : In view of the Government
Resolution of the Home Department of 1934 fixing a 25 per cent. Quota for the Muslims and
in view of the fact that there is shortage of Muslim representation in accordance with
this resolution in the Labour Department, will the Honourable Member rectify and make up
the quota by employing more Muslims ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
The posts to which I have made reference in the course of my reply are not posts which are
governed by communal representation. They are promotion posts.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : May I take it that the resolution does not apply to his Department ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
The Honourable Member ought to read the Government Resolution more carefully than he seems
to have done.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: The other day in reply to Dr. Sir Ziauddin Ahmed the Honourable the
Home Member said that Government Resolution does apply to the Labour Department will he
transfer the resolution to the Honourable Labour Member ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I
know the resolution very well.
Mr.
President: Next question.
Mr.
Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : One more question. Sir, Is the Deputy Secretary's post a Class I
post.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
There is no such thing as a Class I post there.
[f.1]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 29th March 1945, p. 2239.
[f.2]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 29th March 1945, p. 2245.
[f.3]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1945, 29th March 1945, p. 2261.
[f.4]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945. 2nd April 1945, p. 2304.
[f.5]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 4th April 1945, p. 2428.
[f.6]
Ibid., p. 2431.
[f.7]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 4th April 1945, p. 2439.
[f.8]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 4th April 1945, p. 2439.
[f.9]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 4th April 1945, p. 2449.
[f.10]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9th April 1945, p. 2611.
[f.11]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9th April 1945, p. 2614.
[f12]Legislative
Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9th April 1945, p. 2614
[f.13]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9th April 1945, p. 2615.
[f.14]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9th April 1945, p. 2619.
[f.15]
legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9th April 1945, p. 2619.
[f.16]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9th April 1945, p. 2630.
[f.17]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9lh April, 1945, p. 2631.
[f.18]
lbid. 12th April 1945, p. 2797.
[f.19]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central). Vol. IV of 1945, 9th April, 1945, p. 2631.
[f.20]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9th April 1945, p. 2799.
[f.21]lbid.,p.
2799.
[f.22]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 9lh April 1945, p. 2619.
[f.23]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 20th November 1945, p. 1001.
[f.24]
lbid., Vol. I, 21st January 1946. p. 61.
[f.25]
I bid.. Vol. 1,21st January 1946, p. 61.
[f.26]
Not printed in these debates, but copies have been placed in the Library of the House.
[f.27]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 21st January 1946
[f.28]
Not printed in these debates, but copies have been placed in the Library of the House.
[f.29]
legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 30th January 1946, p. 247
[f.30]Ibid., 5th February 1946, p. 477.
[f.31] Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol.l of
1946, 5th February 1946, p. 479.Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946,
5th February 1946, pp. 478-79.
[f.32]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol.l of 1946, 5th February 1946, p. 479.
[f.33]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 5th February 1946, p. 481.
[f.34]lbid.
[f.35]
legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 5th February 1946, pp. 482-83.
[f.36]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 5th February 1946, p. 483.
[f.37]
lbid. pp. 484-85.
[f.38]
legislative Assembly Dehales (Central), Vol. I of 1946. 7lh February 1946, pp. 605-06.
[f.39]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 7th February 1946, p. 616.
[f.40]
lbid., p. 689.
[f.41]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 11th February 1946, p. 753.
[f.42]
legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 11th February 1946, p. 769.
[f.43]lbid
[f.44]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 11th February 1946, p. 773
[f.45]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 20th February 1946, p. 1214.
[f.46]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 21st February 1946, p. 1214.
[f.47]
ibid., p. 1292.
[f.48]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 25th February 1946, p. 1427.
[f.49]
I bid.
[f.50]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 25th February 1946, p. 1428.
[f.51]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 25th February 1946, p.l427.
[f.52]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 25th February 1946, p. 1428.
[f.53]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 25th February 1946, p. 1446.
[f.54]
Ibid., p. 1447.
[f.55]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1946, 25th February 1946, p. 1447.
[f.56]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 28th February 1946, p. 1668.
[f.57]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 28th February 1946, p. 1668.
[f.58]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 28th February 1946, p. 1668.
[f.59]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 28th l-ebniary 1946, p. 1670.
[f.60]
Ibid.
[f.61]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IIIof 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1929.
[f.62]
Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, pp. 1933-35.