Dr. Ambedkar As The Member of Executive
Governor General Council
Questions and Answers
______________________________________________
281
[f.1]
Electrical Commissioner's Report
[f.2]
541. Mr. Manu Subedar : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member slate why a copy of the
report produced by the Electrical Commissioner with the Government of India has not been
placed in the library of the House ?
(b)
Has the Policy Committee, in connection with power, reported ?
(c)
If so, will a copy of their report be made available to the Members of the Legislature ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Presumably the Honourable Member refers to the
proceedings of the Technical Power Conference of which the Electrical Commissioner was the
Chairman. The report is under print and a copy will be placed in the Library of the House
as soon as the printed copies become available.
(b)
and (c). Presumably the reference is to the second meeting of the Policy Committee held on
2nd February 1945. The Record of the meeting is being finalised and copies will be placed
in the Library of the House in due course. The Record of the first meeting of the
Committee is already available in the Library of the House.
282
[f.3]
Scheduled Castes Employees of Central Public Works Department
556.
Mr. Piare Lall Kureel : Will the Honourable the
Labour Member be pleased to state :
(a)
the number of members of the scheduled castes employed in the Central Public Works
Department as Executive Engineers, Sub-Divisional Officers and Subordinates in the
permanent, temporary and work-charge staff, separately ;
(b)
whether it is a fact that none of the temporary incumbents of the posts of Subordinates
belonging to the members of the scheduled castes were confirmed as permanent staff during
the year 1944 ; and
(c)
what measures Government propose to take to secure a fair representation of the members of
the scheduled castes among the permanent staff of the Central Public Works Department ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b). The number of permanent and temporary
Executive Engineers in the Central Public Works Department is 12 and 55 respectively. Two
of the temporary Executive Engineers are members of the Scheduled Castes. There are no
officers of that community among the permanent Executive Engineers and there are no posts
of Executive Engineers borne on the work charged establishment.
The
rest of the information required by the Honourable Member is not readily available. It is
being collected and will be supplied to him as soon as possible.
(c)
Under the orders regarding communal representation in the Public services, one out of
every twelve vacancies (other than vacancies filled by promotion) is set aside for members
of the Scheduled Castes. These orders, which are generally applicable to all classes of
posts in the Central Public Works Department will secure a fair representation for members
of the Scheduled Castes, in that Department.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin
Ahmad : May I ask whether the Scheduled Castes are reckoned as one of the minorities so
that their share comes from 33 percent?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
They are a separate category.
Dr.
Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Then if you put them in a separate category how will the percentage
of 33 per cent, reserved for minorities, be affected by this category ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
: It is not affected at all; it is quite apart from that.
283
[f.4]
Liens on New Delhi Quarters of Government Servants Transferred to Calcutta and Bombay
564.
Syed Ghulam Bhik Nairang : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:
(a)
whether it is a fact that allotment to Government servants of Government quarters at New
Delhi is made according to seniority in service which is reckoned from the date of a
person's continuous appointment at New Delhi/Simla ;
(b)
whether such persons transferred to Simla hold their liens on quarters at New Delhi during
the period of their transfer ;
(c)
whether Government laid down recently that officers transferred to the Branch Secretariat
at Calcutta are also allowed to retain liens on Government quarters at New Delhi whereas
those transferred to Attached Offices will not be eligible for this privilege ;
(d)whether
it is a fact that the staff transferred to Calcutta with the office of the Additional
Chief Engineer, Central Public Works Department, was allowed to retain liens on their
quarters at New Delhi and were allotted quarters on their return to Delhi ;
(e)
whether it is a fact that the period of break in the continuous employment of certain
persons employed in the Central Public Works Department which occurred on account of their
transfers to places other than Simla has been condoned on their re-transfer to Delhi, as a
special case;
(f)
whether it is a fact that the Central Government servants transferred from Delhi to
Calcutta, Bombay, etc. in the interest of service are not allowed to hold liens on their
quarters at New Delhi and on their return to New Delhi are considered not to be
continuously employed for the purpose of allotment of quarters ; and
(g)
whether Government propose to accord such persons the same treatment as is accorded in the
cases mentioned in parts (c) and (e) above ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes. (b) Persons transferred to Simla on or before 10th November, 1942 retain liens on
quarters occupied by them in New Delhi but those transferred to Simla after that date
temporarily are allowed to retain liens for a period of one year from the date of their
transfer.
(c)
Yes.
(d)
Two members of the staff of the Office of the Additional Chief Engineer, Central Public
Works Department were allowed to retain the quarters allotted to them in Delhi for the
period of their stay in Calcutta which was less than one year.
(a) Yes,
but the break in such cases was under one year.
(f)
Central Government servants are allowed to retain liens on their quarter if the
Departments concerned certify that the individuals will return to Delhi within a period of
one year.
(g)
Does not arise, in view of reply to part (f).
284
[f.5]
Production
Cess on Coal Mines
565. Prof. N. G. Ranga : (a) Will the Honourable the
Labour Member be pleased to state if Government have levied a Production cess of Rs. 1-4-0
on portion of coal despatched from mines in British India ?
(b) Is the cost of recruiting unskilled labour from
Gorakhpur, Ballia and other districts of the United Provinces and their maintenance at the
coal fields defrayed out of the proceeds of the cess ?
(b) What
is the Contract Form the labour (including women) have to sign ? Will Government place on
the table of the House a copy of the order under which this labour is recruited and their
contract form ?
(d) What is the machinery to recruit them ?
(e)
Where are they usually stationed ?
(f)
What was the approximate number of this labour at the various coalfields on the 31st
December 1944 ?
(g)
Have separate camps been established for them ? If so, are latrine and bath-room
conveniences provided ?
(h)
How many batches have been sent by now and what is their numerical strength ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Yes.
(b)
The expenditure is initially met by Government. A part of it is recovered from mine owners
and the balance is recouped from the Production Cess Fund.
(c)
No form of contract is signed by labourer who verbally agree to serve for a period of 6 or
12 months.
(d)
Labour Supply Depot, Gorakhpur, run by the Government of the United Provinces.
(e)Coalfields
in Bengal and Bihar and Singareni colliery in Hyderabad.
(f)
(i) Bengal/Bihar coalfields. 15,400. (ii) Singareni Colliery. 2,500.
(a) Yes,
latrines are provided in most camps and will soon be provided in all, but not bath-rooms.
Adequate water supply is however made available.
(h)
The total number of labourers despatched is : Bengal/Bihar coalfields. 37,000. Singareni
collieries. 5,000.
285
[f.6]
Medical Aid at Coal Mine Workers Camps
566. prof. N. G. Ranga : (a) Will the Honourable the
Labour Member be pleased to say if there is any provision for rendering medical aid to the
coal mine workers at their camps ?
(b)
If so, has any schedule been drawn up for maintaining any minimum stock of medicines and
surgical instruments at such camps ? What is the number of medical staff and their
qualifications ?
(c)
Is there any arrangement for the treatment of venereal diseases at these camps ?
(d) Is any record maintained of the
incidence of sickness ?
(e)
If so, what is the total number of cases of malaria and venereal diseases from the
beginning of these establishments of the labour camps up to the 31st December, 1944 ?
(f)
Is there any arrangement for periodical medical examination of the workers ?
(g)
If so, what are the diseases most prevalent which these examinations show and their
percentage ?
(h)
Have any deaths taken place ? If so, how many and due to what reasons ?
(i)
Is there any supervision machinery for the Medical Department of the Camp? Does the total
Civil Surgeon visit the camps and treat serious cases ? Are serious cases taken to Civil
Hospitals ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Yes.
(b)
An adequate stock of medical supplies and surgical instruments are kept at each camp. One
graduate in medicine is in charge of each camp with more than 1,000 labourers ; while one
licentiate in medicine is in charge of each camp with less than 1,000 labourers.
(c)Yes.
(d)
Yes.
(e)
The camps, are spread over a large area and it has therefore not been possible to collect
the information in the time available.
(f)
Yes.
(g)
Annemia. In this case also time is required to collect the statistics asked for.
(h)
yes. 156 up to end of last December. The majority of deaths is due to natural causes. A
small number is due to accidents at work sites. (i) Yes. A post of chief Medical Officer
of the Directorate of Unskilled Labour Supply has been sanctioned. In view of the special
provisions made the total Civil Surgeon does not visit the camps. Serious cases are taken
to Civil Hospitals.
286
[f.7]
Rations at Coal Mine Workers Camps
567. Prof. N. G. Ranga : (a) Will the Honourable the
Labour Member be pleased to state if the workers living at these mining labour camps are
provided with rations directly by Government or through a contractor ?
(b)
Is each worker allowed to draw his ration separately or are the rations given in bulk to a
gang of fifty men ?
(c)
Is it a fact that labour are usually supplied short weights by the contractor ?
(d)
Can this labour purchase their rations from the Total Government Ration Shops or Depots ?
If not, why not ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Workers in mining labour camps are issued rations by Government through a contractor
under the supervision of Group Officers.
(b)
Rations are issued weekly in bulk for each gang.
(c)No.
(d)
No, as they are issued free Government rations.
287
[f.8]
Corporal Punishments at Coal Mine Workers Camps
568.
Prof. N. G. Ranga : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour member be pleased to state whether
it is a fact that corporal punishment is being given to the workers at these coal mining
labour camps ? Does this apply to men and women both ?
(b)
Does any machinery exist for the redress of these workers' grievances?
(c)Are
the Labour Welfare Adviser to the Government of India and his Assistants or the Coal Mines
Welfare Commissioner and the officers under him empowered to look after the welfare of
these workers or conduct inquiries into their grievances ? If not, why not ?
(d)If
so, who investigates their complaints ?
(e)
Is any record maintained of these cases ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) No. There are no women's camps.
(b)
Yes. The workers can approach the Deputy Director Labour Supply (Coal) for redress of
grievances.
(c)
No. The Labour Camps are looked after by the Deputy Director Labour Supply (Coal) and his
staff.
(d)
Chief Liaison Officer and the Group officers of the Unskilled Labour Supply Directorate.
(e)
If cases are submitted in writing, the records are kept in the office of the Deputy
Director Labour Supply (Coal). Oral complaints are dealt with on the spot. Where
considered necessary records are kept.
288
[f.9]
Mica Commission
661.
Mr. Manu Subedar: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please slate the object of
appointing the Mica Commission ?
(b)
What were its terms of reference and composition ?
(c)
What assistance have Government rendered at any time to the mica producers of this country
?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) and (b). The Honourable Member presumably refers to the Mica Enquiry Committee. His
attention is invited to Resolutions No. MD-55, dated 15th May, 1944 and 23rd October 1944,
copies of which have been placed in the Library of the Indian Legislature.
(c) Under the Government of India Act, 1935 Mineral
Development is a Provincial subject except to such extent as is declared by a Federal law
to be expedient in the public interest. No such federal law at present exists and Mineral
Development has therefore been left entirely to Provincial Governments. But even so during
the war the Central Government has given considerable assistance to mica producers in
helping them to get supplies and by allowing the bonus on excess production to be free of
excess profits tax.
Mr.
Manu Subedar : Is it a fact that Government have controlled the price of mica and that
bulk of the mica has been purchased both for this Government and for the Allied
Governments at controlled prices, and that the control has been introduced by the Central
Government ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
Prices have been Fixed.
Mr.
Manu Subedar :
May I know how these prices compare with the pre-war prices ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
They compare very favourably.
Mr.
Manu Subedar
: How much is the difference ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Sir, I must have notice of that question.
Mr.
N. M. Joshi : May I ask whether the Mica Commission is going to consider the conditions of
work of the mica miners, and, if so, whether the miners are represented on the Mica
Commission ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
No, that is not one of the subjects which the Commission will make enquiries about.
Mr.
G. W. Tyson : With reference to part (c) of the question, will the Honourable Member say
whether lie is satisfied that during the war, in which period the Central Government has
had a good deal to do with the mica industry, Government has accorded protection to the
mechanised mining companies which have suffered very heavy tosses as a result of the
illicit trade in mica ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
That is one of the reason why the Committee was appointed.
Shrimati
K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : May I know if the Maternity Benefit Act is applied to mica
factories ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It applies to all mines.
Shrimati
K. Radha Bai Subbarayan :
Is it a fact that the Factories Act is not applied to mica splitting factories. If so, why
?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
I have no reason to believe that it is not applied.
Shrimati
K. Radha Bai Subbarayan :
May I draw the attention of the Government to the report in the Trade Unions Record of
September, 1944 ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Probably that might need further corroboration.
Mr.
N. M. Joshi : May I ask whether the Honourable Member will make enquiries to Find out
whether the Factories Act applied to mica factories, or not ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I will make enquiries.
289
[f.10]
Abolition of Distinction between Orthodox and Un-Orthodox Quarters
662.
Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari: (a) With reference to
the Honourable the Labour Member's reply to the adjournment motion on the 10th February,
1945, regarding the abolition of the distinction between orthodox and unorthodox quarters,
will he be pleased to state whether other Departments of Government were consulted and
which and how many of the Departments of the Government of India were for and against the
proposal to abolish the distinction ?
(b)
Has the Estate Officer been vested till now with the discretion to allow unorthodox
quarters ? If not, why has lie now been vested with such discretion ?
(c)
What is the method or machinery by which the Estate Officer will be able to satisfy
himself whether an applicant, who is an Indian, professes European habits and thus becomes
eligible for a unit in the unorthodox quarters ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) Yes. Government do not consider it necessary to specify the Departments who were
against or in favour of the proposal.
(b)
No. The Estate Officer will have no discretion in the allotment of un-orthodox quarters as
Government have decided that a declaration by an applicant in respect of his style of
living should be accepted without question.
(c)
Does not arise.
290
[f.11]Abolition
of Distinction Between Orthodox and Un-Orthodox Quarters
663.
Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari: (a) Will the Honourable the
Labour Member be pleased to state whether, according to his reply of the 10th instant in
connection with the adjournment motion on the same subject, mentioned in the preceding
question, it is proposed to disturb the provisional lien holders of unorthodox quarters ?
If so, will they be allotted similar accommodation of the type to which they are eligible,
if available ?
(b)
In the event of such higher category accommodation not being available, is it the
intention to allow them as heretofore to continue in the type of house they are already in
occupation until such time as the higher type accommodation is available ? If not, why not
?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
(a) The reply to the first part of the question is in the negative. The second part does
not arise.
(b)
Yes.
291
[f.12]
Break-Down of Trade Disputes Arbitration Machinery in Ahmedabad
668.
Mr. K. S. Gupta : (a) Is the Honourable the Labour Member
aware of the serious situation arising out of the break-down of the permanent machinery of
arbitration for settlement of disputes capital and industry in Ahmedabad ?
(b) Is it not a fact that the break-down is viewed
with grave concern by the Joint Representative Board of the Textile Labour Association of
Ahmedabad ?
(c)
Do not Government of India propose to restore arbitration system ? If not, why not ?
(d)
Is it not a fact that there is a written agreement of 1937 signed by both the Textile
Labour Association and the Mill owners' Association of Ahmedabad ?
(e)
Is it not a fact that the above said agreement is still unregistered and not acted upon by
the Mill owners' Association ? If so, do Government propose to use their influence and
power necessary to end the dispute ?
(f)
Does the Government of India propose to encourage and help the formation of a Labour
Research Institute contemplated by the Textile Labour Association of Ahmedabad for the
benefit of the working classes ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
I am aware of the existence of a trade dispute over bonus between the Textile Labour
Association and the Mill owners' Association, Ahmedabad, which has been taken up by the
Chief Conciliator under the Bombay Industrial Disputes Act, 1938. I have no information
regarding any breakdown of the arbitration machinery and other matters referred to in the
question all of which are the concern of the Provincial Government.
292
[f.13]
Communal Composition of certain Staff under Labour Department
55.
Sardar Sant Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :
(a) the
total number, and
(b) the number of Sikhs,
(c) Christians,
(d) Domiciled
Europeans and Anglo-indians, and
(e) Parsis,
appointed since 1934 in each grade of pay on
(i) permanent and
(ii)
temporary basis, carrying a salary of Rs. 100 p.m. and above, in all the Departments and
offices under him, giving the designations of Sikhs so appointed ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Arnbedkar : The time and
labour involved in collecting this information will not be commensurate with the results
to be achieved. The Government therefore regret their inability to furnish this
information.
293
[f.14]
Profiteering in House Property Transactions in Delhi
57.
Mr. Satya Narayan Sinha : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please slate if it is a
fact that a good deal of profiteering is going on in house property transactions in Delhi
City ? If so, what action has been taken by Government to check it ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Government have no information.
(b)
The question does not arise but for the information of the Honourable Member I would state
that Government have not passed any measure regulating the sale of private house property
in Delhi City.
294
[f.15]
Labour officers' Training in Britain
810.
Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please stale :
(a) whether Labour Officers are being sent to the United
Kingdom
for training;
(b)
the object and course of training; and
(c)how
many are proposed to be sent and the expenditure involved in this scheme ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
(a) Yes.
(b)
The object is to have experienced and suitably trained staff to tackle problems of labour
administration, e.g., industrial relations including the settlement of Labour disputes,
factory inspection, and labour welfare, wage regulation and inspection, employment
exchanges, demobilisation and resettlement, which are of immediate importance to India.
The course will cover mainly all the subjects enumerated above and will be conducted
partly at the headquarters of the Ministry of Labour and partly in other centres in the
United Kingdom. It will last for a period of about six to eight months.
(c)
The intention is to send three batches of 20 officers each, each batch including 12
officers of the Central Government and eight of the Provincial Governments and States.
Financial sanction has been accorded to the sending of 12 Central Government officers with
the first batch of trainees and this will cost the Central Government about a lakh of
rupees. The Provincial Governments and States will bear the expenditure in connection with
their nominees.
Sardar
Sant Singh:
Will the Honourable Member say how he proposes to make the selections ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:
With regard to the selections of nominees of Provinces and Slates, the matter rests with
them. With regard to the selection of officers from Centre it rests with the Central
Government of India. If the point of my Honourable friend is whether communal proportions
will be recognised in making the selections, I want to tell him that I do propose to apply
that principle.
Sardar
Sant Singh : Will preference be given to those who are better qualified so far as
educational qualifications are concerned.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It will be one of the qualifications.
Mr.
Lalchand Navalrai: May I know from the Honourable Member whether these officers will be
selected by the heads of the particular Departments or by some committee.
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
They are selected by the different Departments.
The
Muhammad Yamin Khan
: Are they officers already in Government service ?
The
Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :
Yes, they will be officers already in service.